About pickups....... (discussion/opinions please)

[guitar_199]

First off, I can't express enough how I am NOT the most knowledgeable player to walk the earth when it comes to the world of "all things guitar". So I really am trying to learn!!!! For the most part this is regarding the new (to me) 2013 LP Standard GT that I just got a couple of weeks ago.

I have been considering the idea of getting a set of the Probucker 2/3 pickups for this thing.

But then, the "over-thinking" sets in... and I lose all control!!!!

Here is what occurred to me. So many of these comparison video out there show "Probuckers" vs "you name it" pickups. They show them clean, they show them driving the amp(or pedals?) hard and they do seem to be pretty good. And THEN I started thinking about some of my (personal) favorite tones from Joe B. I SINCERELY DOUBT that the first thing he does is to rip out the original pickups and slap in a set of Burstbuckers, Seymour Duncans, or anything else!!!! So when I listen to that GLORIOUS TONE (to me!)... I am most likely hearing the original PAF pickups that came in it or, at the very least, a period correct set that was installed.

This starts me thinking..... "I want to change pickups..... why?????" and "why do I want to change to something with higher output/impedance when a "PAF spec" pickup sounds like THAT????".

This is where my ignorance just "shines" all on it's own!!!!

So I am just looking for thoughts and discussions. Would the original Alnico pickups IN this guitar even come close? Would I be better served getting a "Probucker 2/3" set? Or something else in the high output range? Would I be better served sticking to something with original PAF specs??? What would/could a "Probucker" or "Burstbucker" give me that a "PAF spec coulld NOT"?

In advance, thank you for any thoughts or opinions returned! I appreciate your time in doing so!

Bob

 

[BGood]

I guess you have looked at the bottom of the pickups to know what you have ? Probuckers came common in 2014, but I read that they were put in some models before that.

Alnico Classics get a bad rap because some say they lack clarity. It is often because how they are badly adjusted (meaning too high).

Pickups are not the first thing I think about when chasing tone, choice of amp and speaker has way more influence on tone. Ask Joe B about it. Start by playing with pickup heights on your LP. First thing, get the neck humbucker down to ring level. Test it clean and dirty. If it doesn't please your ears, raise it one complete screw turn at the time. Play it for a while.

Using a screwdriver is the easiest, fastest, cheapest and by far the most efficient way to a good tone. You might replace your pickups a dozen times, if you put them back at the same height as the last ones, the problem will likely persist.

About Probuckers ... Great great pickups, I have them on my 3 guitars. But, know that every brand new one you see advertised on eBay, Reverb, Amazon, etc, are fakes. Epiphone (Gibson) doesn't sell it its pickups through non Gibson authorized businesses. This was confirmed to me by Gibson.

Now ... we need to see that GT !

 

[Equalphone]

Just be aware that Joey B has some cool amps. That’s a lot of his sound.

Probuckers always have a bit of an edge IME. When dialed back for full cleans, they still growl just a little bit. If you’re looking for crystal cleans, something like a Gibson 490 set is more of what you want. Or the 490/498 set if you like some drive in the bridge. But the stock Epi’s are pretty close to the 490’s.

As for the probuckers on eBay being fakes like @BGood said, probably. The jury is still out on where these things come from. But I will say that anytime anyone has dissected one of these aftermarket Epiphone pickups, they seem to adhere to the proper specs. So they at least seem to be very good counterfeits.

If you want to spend a few bucks more, you can buy a set of probuckers direct from Epiphone. It’s the only pick up they sell aftermarket. $120.

 

[BlueSquirrel]

I guess you have looked at the bottom of the pickups to know what you have ? Probuckers came common in 2014, but I read that they were put in some models before that.

Alnico Classics get a bad rap because some say they lack clarity. It is often because how they are badly adjusted (meaning too high).

Pickups are not the first thing I think about when chasing tone, choice of amp and speaker has way more influence on tone. Ask Joe B about it. Start by playing with pickup heights on your LP. First thing, get the neck humbucker down to ring level. Test it clean and dirty. If it doesn't please your ears, raise it one complete screw turn at the time. Play it for a while.

Using a screwdriver is the easiest, fastest, cheapest and by far the most efficient way to a good tone. You might replace your pickups a dozen times, if you put them back at the same height as the last ones, the problem will likely persist.

About Probuckers ... Great great pickups, I have them on my 3 guitars. But, know that every brand new one you see advertised on eBay, Reverb, Amazon, etc, are fakes. Epiphone (Gibson) doesn't sell it its pickups through non Gibson authorized businesses. This was confirmed to me by Gibson.

Now ... we need to see that GT !

To my knowledge, they started at the end of 2011 / beginning of 2012.
I had a 2012 Standard with coil split which sounded great!

 

[soulman969]

Jean's suggestion about pickup height is paramount in terms of getting the very best out of any humbucker including those you have. My thinking relative to pickup swaps is to first define what I'm after as far as tone and output. I just wish pickup winders would provide the necessary specs for each of their pickups that make that easier to do.

But in general the resistance in ohms will tell us what to expect as far as output and the inductance in henries will give us some idea of how a pickup might sound tonally and what kind of clarity to expect. In general pickups wound to 50s PAF specs are lower in output and have lower inductance as well. If that's what you're after you know where to look.

But in the end it still comes down to what we want our guitars to sound like and that's a matter of personal choice. I tend to value clarity above all else so I would buy pickups with a lower inductance especially in the neck pickup and worry less about output because I'm not looking for the pickups themselves to drive the amp harder. What are you looking for?

 

[BGood]

To my knowledge, they started at the end of 2011 / beginning of 2012.
I had a 2012 Standard with coil split which sounded great!

Right, I always fish for an intro date of Probuckers. March 2010 it is.
https://epiphoneblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/05/new-probucker-pickups/

So ... guitar_199 , You should have Probuckers in your guitar and those are built like PAFs. Look no further.

Introduction of the Epiphone ProBucker™ pickup. These pickups are an inspired version of Gibson’s BurstBucker, featuring unevenly wound coils and Alnico-II magnets that replicate that “Patent Applied for” airy tone. You’ll love the way they sound!

ProBuckers feature:

18% Nickel Silver unit bases and covers: This is the same alloy used by Gibson. The use of Nickel Silver reduces the occurrence of eddy currents due to low conductivity and provides a more transparent and crisp output.

Bobbins manufactured to Gibson specifications and dimensions: The size and shape of bobbins has great impact on tonal response. The bobbins used on these pickups duplicate the size and shape of the gold standard in the industry, Gibson humbuckers.

Elektrisola magnet wire: The same wire used by Gibson. Single build (thickness of coating on wire) high quality magnet wire manufactured to NEMA (National Electrical Manufactures Association) standards.

Pole screws and slugs: Manufactured to Gibson specifications using the same metal alloys.

Also: ProBucker pickups feature Sand cast Alnico II magnets, high quality 4 conductor lead wire and are Vacuum Wax potted to eliminate microphonics.

 

[Rusty Chops]

^^^^^^^^^
No wonder I like them

 

[Charles Carter]

I have Pro-Buckers in a couple of guitars and am able to get the kind of cleans I'm happy with but they're in hollow and semi-hollow archtops.
Having said that, the BurstBuckers in my LP have a wider tonal range and a mellowness in the cleans that is comparatively exceptional to my ears.

 

[Rusty Chops]

I don’t know what preceded Pro-bucker, or when, but the pickups in my 2001 MIK goldtop sound pretty durn good too. No complaints.

I have liked Burstbuckers since their advent, but have no clue what’s in my goldtop Epi.

 

[Space1999]

Well, from personal experience, you are most likely going to favor ProBuckers over Alnico Classics in the bridge position especially.

But, the neck position Alnicos are very sweet in their own right and do sound somewhat like that vintage Gibson sound, especially on LP’s

And you can find used ProBuckers from players who swap them out for anfter market pu’s. Swapping them out is as easy as taking your Alnicos out and disconnecting and reconnecting the quick connects on the ProBuckers.

And you can mix and match them with the Alnico’s.
You did state you were thinking of 2/3 ProBuckers but I believe in most Epiphones they are bridge AlNiCo 5’s and neck AlNiCo 3’s.

If you take the after market approach realize there is a point of diminishing return after about $250-$300 a pu unless you have someone hand wind you a set.

Pat

 

[3bolt79]

I would recommend that you spend some time with a screwdriver and adjust the heights to your ears preference, with your amp set with the tone controls at 12 o clock. Then when you have the sound that is best, start experimenting with different tone control settings on your amp. The LP Custom IBG that I just sold wound up with the neck pickup almost even with the pickups ring.

 

[guitar_199]

Jean's suggestion about pickup height is paramount in terms of getting the very best out of any humbucker including those you have. My thinking relative to pickup swaps is to first define what I'm after as far as tone and output. I just wish pickup winders would provide the necessary specs for each of their pickups that make that easier to do.

But in general the resistance in ohms will tell us what to expect as far as output and the inductance in henries will give us some idea of how a pickup might sound tonally and what kind of clarity to expect. In general pickups wound to 50s PAF specs are lower in output and have lower inductance as well. If that's what you're after you know where to look.

But in the end it still comes down to what we want our guitars to sound like and that's a matter of personal choice. I tend to value clarity above all else so I would buy pickups with a lower inductance especially in the neck pickup and worry less about output because I'm not looking for the pickups themselves to drive the amp harder. What are you looking for?

Thanks for the response. See, what I have in my head... is Joe B's tone.
Clean when he wants it clean....
But driving the amp into a nice warm "moaning/wailing" that just sings.....
But NOT fuzzy "super fuzzy high-gain goth metal" at all.
Smooth and "singing".....

that is the best way I can characterize it.... and TO BE SURE... I don't have the experience with humbucking pickups to know what it takes to get there. I know that there is no substitute for "just hearing it" by playing..... I am just hoping for some guidance in the general scheme of "how one might try" to get there.
Thanks again.

 

[guitar_199]

Right, I always fish for an intro date of Probuckers. March 2010 it is.
https://epiphoneblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/05/new-probucker-pickups/

So ... guitar_199 , You should have Probuckers in your guitar and those are built like PAFs. Look no further.

I am not thinking that these are Probuckers. I have sent the rear shot to both pickups and the wiring. I can only see one volume pot clearly but it looks like it only shows one wire coming out of the pickup cable soldered straight to the pot.... and no switches to handle a coil split.

I also just pulled up the 2013 catalog and it shows the "Plus Top Pro" as having a Probucker 2/3 set but the "Standard" has "Alnico Classics".

I may look for a set of the Probuckers but I am not sure where to find them .... considering the constant threat of "fakes"!!!!

Thank you much for the time spent in your response.

 

[guitar_199]

Now ... we need to see that GT !

Wait no more!!!!!!

 

[BlueSquirrel]

The alnico Classics sound great in some guitars and some amps. I think you should play them for a while before wanting to change them. You may like them with your amp and pedals.

 

[syco]

I am not thinking that these are Probuckers. I have sent the rear shot to both pickups and the wiring. I can only see one volume pot clearly but it looks like it only shows one wire coming out of the pickup cable soldered straight to the pot.... and no switches to handle a coil split.

I also just pulled up the 2013 catalog and it shows the "Plus Top Pro" as having a Probucker 2/3 set but the "Standard" has "Alnico Classics".

I may look for a set of the Probuckers but I am not sure where to find them .... considering the constant threat of "fakes"!!!!

Thank you much for the time spent in your response.

Epiphone take of the Gibson 57 Classic / 57 Classic + . Nice pickups .

Epiphone 57CH(Classic).............(Alnico5)............... ..........7.8 - 8.13KΩ
Epiphone HOTCH(Classic+)........(Alnico5).................. .......13.3 - 14KΩ

 

[guitar_199]

Epiphone take of the Gibson 57 Classic / 57 Classic + . Nice pickups .

Epiphone 57CH(Classic).............(Alnico5)............... ..........7.8 - 8.13KΩ
Epiphone HOTCH(Classic+)........(Alnico5).................. .......13.3 - 14KΩ

THANK YOU for THAT info!!!!

THIS is the kind of thing that I don't know how to track down. So these are BOHT A5 eh???
Hmmmmmmmmm

and you know... I STILL haven't had this on MY AMP yet.
But that bridge pickup surprises me.......


Assuming that THIS is what they are..... would those measurements actually show up on a multimeter if I measured them????

 

[syco]

THANK YOU for THAT info!!!!

THIS is the kind of thing that I don't know how to track down. So these are BOHT A5 eh???
Hmmmmmmmmm

and you know... I STILL haven't had this on MY AMP yet.
But that bridge pickup surprises me.......


Assuming that THIS is what they are..... would those measurements actually show up on a multimeter if I measured them????

It can vary +/- 10 % , but yes they should read in that range on a multimeter .

 

[syco]

 

[guitar_199]

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And thank you for these!!!!!!! I love stuff like this!