NGD- Olive Casino

[Darkness]

Ordered long ago and finally got it in my hands last night.

Quick rant:
I wish Epi would drop the "worn" phrase. None of their "worn" series fit the description. They're just flat or satin finishes, nothing about them looks worn. Not the hardware, not the finish, nothing. I happen to like the "worn" finish, but it's poorly named.

Initial impressions:
This is my first hollow body and my first P90 equipped guitar. I'm used to my Epi LP which is a solid heavy slab of growls. I wasn't really sure what to expect of the sound. It sounds more like a classical instrument. Where the LP is mostly growls and barks, the Casino chimes and sings. With the LP I tend to rely on reverb or gain or effects, but the Casino doesn't need any of that.

Quality:
Visually it is beautiful. No sloppy work has been identified in the body build. The finish itself is different from my 59 LP which shares the "worn" term. This finish makes the wood feel synthetic, almost plastic. The neck has texture in it and the finish makes it feel too uniform to be natural.

The pots are smooth and take a slight bit of tension to turn, I like that because it feels more precise. I can't speak to how good the pots or any hardware on it are, but it all works well... all except maybe the bridge.

It has been pretty well documented that these bridges tend to rattle. Mine might be rattling or buzzing. My B string sounds a bit muted, as if something is touching it or binding. My low E string buzzes on the upper frets when I hammer a note, and the note seems to wander during sustain as if using a tremelo. Buzz mostly pronounced on the first three frets. The A string buzzes on the first three frets too. I've only played the guitar for about an hour, might need to check the setup. This came set up from the retailer but maybe they didn't do the best. I will need to spend more time on it to be sure.

That aside, it plays beautifully. If I can get those issues solved this might become my favorite guitar.

The pics:

 

[Norton]

is that texture on the guitar or just an artifact of the photo? it almost looks thick and goopy....

loc-tite will quiet your bridge saddles down. intonate them then put a couple drop of loc-tite in the saddle/bridge intersection and they'll shut up.

 

[Darkness]

is that texture on the guitar or just an artifact of the photo? it almost looks thick and goopy....

It's the guitar. The wood grain is visible in sunlight, indoors It's very hard to see and looks muddled. On the neck it looks like they aimed for a weathered wood grain finish but the coating makes it look like textured plastic. It isn't rough to the touch, my hand slides across without a problem, but not as smooth as other necks.

I noticed that the little spring is bent up near the low E string. Maybe an attempt by the setup tech to quiet the buzz. I saw you mention using loc tite before. Looking at it now and curious where it goes. Does it need to be in the threads between these screws and the beveled blocks?

 

[Norton]

Loctite: anywhere inside the area where the saddle sits in the bridge.

mics got a worn black. It’s super smooth, no grain filler…so you really see the grai. But it’s very even. Like just enough pigment to turn opaque.

The olive one almost looks blotchy.

It’s probably the pics.

 

[Darkness]

@Norton some of it might be the pics. This finish looks more like paint than anything to me. On the neck particularly, the surface almost looks like pressure treated lumber with a smooth coat of paint on it.

 

[Norton]

hmmmm. the black one I've got there's no finish sitting "on the surface" it's suck down into the wood like dye or stain.

obviously it's got some sort of top sealer coat, but it's not thick enough to fill any of the gain pores.

 

[elephantrider]

I love it. that is one of the best colors!

 

[Darkness]

hmmmm. the black one I've got there's no finish sitting "on the surface" it's suck down into the wood like dye or stain.

obviously it's got some sort of top sealer coat, but it's not thick enough to fill any of the gain pores.

Yup. Other color variants with the "worn" finish are thinner. For some reason the olive tends to go thick. I've looked at lots of them online and they all look more like a paint than a stain. I was hoping for a thin coat but its not exactly a bad thing. Looks a lot like the ammo cans in the back of my truck.

 

[soulman969]

Yup. Other color variants with the "worn" finish are thinner. For some reason the olive tends to go thick. I've looked at lots of them online and they all look more like a paint than a stain. I was hoping for a thin coat but its not exactly a bad thing. Looks a lot like the ammo cans in the back of my truck.

Olive drab. US Military spec.

 

[Darkness]

Speaking of spec...

SW setup card says
12th fret action
Bass 4/64
Treb 4/64

Neck relief
Bass .005
Treb .004

Neck pickup
Bass 8/64
Treb 8/64

Bridge pickup
Bass 7/64
Treb 7/64

That all sounds beautiful, but here is what I am measuring.

12th fret action
Bass 3/64
Treb 3/64

Neck relief
Bass 0 (absolutely none)
Treb .005

Neck pickup
Bass 8/64
Treb 8/64

Bridge pickup
Bass 8/64
Treb 8/64

Hmm... seems like my neck needs a bit more relief added and I can see if that removes some buzz I'm experiencing on the low E and A strings. The part that bothers me is it seems the neck relief on treb may have gone up slightly while Bass went down. Could just be my bad vision and use of the feelers... I hope.

 

[Darkness]

Side note, should I trim the guard so it doesn't contact the pickup cover?



Here is the lack of relief on bass side with capo in first fret and finger holding 22nd. If you look closely that fret isn't seated well either.

 

[The Convert]

Very nice guitar! Love the color!

Unless I’m mistaken, I believe that the Epi/Gibson worn finishes are a combination of satin topcoats and the absence of grain filler which allows the wood texture to come through.

Congrats!

 

[Darkness]

Thanks! I hope I can get it to play as nice as it looks.

I made an adjustment to the neck and tuned it. Now I have .005 relief on the low E but it still buzzes, maybe more now. I do have a tall 4th fret, I used a short straight edge and found it rocked on that one. Same is true for the 7th fret and the 11th, I stopped counting. Seems like they are only high under the low E, maybe pressed in unevenly.

I kept hearing a weird buzz near the bridge but holding the bridge didn't muffle it. I realized its the switch of all things. In bridge or neck position it's firm but in the middle it's loose enough for a light breeze to move it. Is it possible to snug that up or do I need a replacement?

I've become a little frustrated with this guitar for now. I'll call SW tomorrow and ask them what they think I should do. Between their inspection and the setup I paid for I expected better.

 

[Norton]

you've got a couple frets that aren't seated well there. I might have gotten lucky with mine. I use a brass fret seat tool (Philadelphia luthiery) and a couple smacks with a hammer usually works for that kind of problem

bridge buzzes: if it's a sympathetic rattle you can fix almost all of those with loc-tite.

 

[The Convert]

I had a Casino for a while. While there are a bunch of ways of dampening the sympathetic vibrations on a trapeze bridge, I was informed by many a true believer that this was part of the Casino charm and character on those early records. I love John’s sound on the Rooftop session. While I think I had a lovely example, I decided that wasn’t for me. But others play wonderfully on them.

 

[Darkness]

Thanks @Norton I'm considering setting up a press to get those frets seated right. I saw a $10 radius plate that goes with a $150 press, but I can cut some wood blocks and substitute that press with a c clamp. I'll only have to buy that radius plate. I considered the hammer route but this might be less brutal. I'm going to do one step at a time. Fix frets, address the saddles, then worry about the 3 way switch. Looks like replacement is my only option on that.

@The Convert I wouldn't mind if it was milder buzzing. When I turn my amp up loud it drowns, but I want to enjoy playing this acoustically too. It's going to take some work to get there, I'm not willing to throw money at a luthier just yet.

 

[Zero]

Loctite: anywhere inside the area where the saddles meet the bridge.

This is the worse advise I’ve ever seen.
Firstly, loctite is used on the threads so to use it correctly in this case, would be to loosen your saddle all the way to the back, use a bit of loctite at the saddle and tighten up back to intonation.

Fair warning, Loctite is a chemical compound that will stain your guitars finish if it gets onto it. Ive used it when building motorcycles and working on cars, I don’t really feel it’s needed in a guitar scenario, but now at least you have two opinions in it.

Take it to a shop for a set up.

 

[Darkness]

@Zero I've seen clear thread dope that I may try, it's silicone based and doesn't seem to harden. If I go that route I plan to take the bridge off and count the turns that the saddles are set to, back then off and apply one drop, then set them again. Sounds like you know cars, picture replacing a tie rod end. As long as the dope doesn't harden it should prevent rattles and allow adjustment, where regular loctite would need to break once cured for any adjustment.

I wouldn't use the blue or red loctite here. I know the mention of "anywhere inside the area where the saddles meet the bridge" sounds like open the loctite and pour it on, but I can only see it being useful on the screw threads. I might use wax instead as that could be put on the spring too as a mild barrier to reduce metal to metal nose.

Definitely not taking it to a shop for a setup. SW did a setup already and all they did was replace strings, set action, set intonation which I'm kicking myself for because I could do that in 15 minutes. I thought they did better work than me but this time around they didn't. If it goes to a shop it will be to swap the switch. I can solder copper pipes like no other but I could never master soldering wires.
I appreciate the warning on loctite.

 

[Keefoman]

Congrats on your new guitar! It looks good!
I hear you on the bridge buzzing. Tried loctite on my V. Didn't help for long, so I removed the tension wire. Buzzing solved, but then of course you'll risk getting down on your knees, looking for saddles on the floor on your next string change.

The Firebird I recently aquired has the same issue. Solution: New Faber e-sert conversion kit with an ABR-1 bridge and tail piece. Not recieved yet, but I hope it's a significant upgrade.

The fret issue also familiar. I have spent countless hours on my korina V. Both knocking down frets and levelling, adjusting action and trussrod, but I finally got there. I did the mistake of not specifying that I wanted a proper setup and fretdress (if needed) from the internet music warehouse I bought it from... Will never happen again

The Firebird I suspect, went through a thorough setup and dressing at the shop before the previous owner got it, and it is immaculate, even with as low action as I use on my Gibsons.

 

[The Convert]

To confirm the source of the problem and to do so without damaging anything, I'd recommend just cutting a piece of foam and wedge it behind the bridge (between the body and strings in the trapeze), then see if the noise clears up. Might be helpful. Hate to make expensive/permanent changes and discover some noise is coming from another location.