The Glory of "Cheap" Epi (and Squier) Guitars

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duceditor

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I know I mark myself as to age when I say this, but once upon a time "cheap" guitars were crap.

My very first guitar -- this was back in about 1961 -- exemplified the breed. And calling it "crap" is unfair to that word. (More accurate ones would likely draw the attention of this site's moderators and be called "inappropriate.") Fingerboards with no -- I mean zero, nilch -- radius. Frets roughly put into place. On my own the fret markers were painted on. As was the "pickguard."

That guitar cost $12.88 -- earned by mowing lawns and the like and saving quarters.

The next step up were the Silvertones and Harmony guitars available at Sears. These were actually playable, even if their construction was at best questionable. Materials? Masonite and plywood.

No, quality instruments back then were big buck items with names such as "Gibson," "Fender," "Gretsch" and, yes, "Epiphone" on the headstocks. Epiphone then, of course, was its own company, made in USA, and right up there with the Big Boys.

I, like most working musicians, would play nothing else -- in part because nothing other than those big label brands were playable. But since they were expensive most of us owned only one. Indeed, we never even thought of owning a stable.

Going back to my own story I played a Gibson as soon as the money started coming in. A "student grade" instrument -- an ES-125TDC. This one here:

Don with ES125tdc.jpg

It said "Gibson."It was pretty. Its P90s sang beautifully.

Today collectors search for guitars like that. But in truth it wasn't all they good. It did the job -- which for me included some wonderful memories made on the concert stage and in the recording studio -- but in truth it would not, if put into any our hands today with our eyes closed, leave up particularly impressed.

Okay, all of that is old history. (Alas, most of mine is) ;)

Today any budding guitarist can easily have an instrument far superior to that early `60s Gibson. And many of us, even shortly after starting out, own several. Epiphones. Squiers. Other lesser known brands. Often made in the very same factories as one-another, in the far east. China. Korea. Indonesia. And yet others.

This is understood. This is, today, a given.

Yes, by even telling this tale I am, as I said above, marking myself as an oldster. Like the old codger who tells tales of walking two miles to school every morning, up hill and in a blizzard.

Here on Epiphone Talk we know this. As do my friends of on Squier-Talk.

But in fact what I want to say here goes somewhat beyond all of the above. It is in praise of the cheap Epiphones. The really, really cheap ones. Juniors and Specials.

Like most older guys I, today, own a host of instruments. (Hey, if you buy things and mostly never sell 'em, that is what happens as the years go by.) Some of mine are costly American made models. Beautiful instruments that grace the eye as well as the ear. With delicate aging finishes with what we call a "patina." Lovely stuff.

Unlike a true collector I keep mine out. Within reach. Quickly available to play (as well as delicious eye candy). But here's the thing: When I feel like playing I rarely reach for one of them. What I reach for is an Epiphone or a Squier.

Why? No, not because of anti-snobbery. Not even because the others are delicate. (In truth they really aren't.) I grab an Epi -- a low cost Epi -- because of the way it plays and feels and sounds.

Right now my most often played guitar is TV Yellow Epiphone Special. I bought it (with a bit of finagling) for $99 at MF.

Simply put I love it.

The reasons are simple.

One, it has a GREAT neck. Yes, it really does. And most amazing (to me) was it came that way. There was no need to hone down the fret ends to prevent blood loss. (Back even 15 years ago that'd have been needed on any guitar less than $200 or so.)

No, its neck is *perfect.*

Too, it is light.

Maybe its my age -- or if not the age, then the mileage -- but to me light guitars are such a plus. Easy on the back. And in the case of the Special (or its sister, the single PUP Junior), the body shape and its balance is, again, just perfect.

Then there is the simplicity and effectiveness of the electronics.

There has never been a better guitar pickup for the music I like to play than the simple P90. Clear as a bell. Articulate. Responsive to even small changes in setting and playing technique. In short, they rock.

And the Epiphones are the real thing. No "improvements." No cheapening cop outs either. Just real AlNico bar magnets and a simple coil. The same pure magic today as they have had since their advent in mid-1940s.

Yes, they were there at the birth of rock and roll. Their pedigree shows. They are the real thing.

The simplicity of the wiring, too, is to me a plus. One volume. One tone control. A switch if there is more than one pickup. That's it.

And frankly it is more than I need most of the time. -For rolling off the volume also rolls of the highs. And if the amp is set right even the bridge PUP alone will provide me with almost any sound I'd ever need. Clear. Crisp. Biting. Crunchy. Sweet.

(No, I don't play heavy metal) :D

Then there is the "cheap" finish. Poly to be sure. Tough as nails.

No, it'll never get a "Patina." Hah! Instead it'll always look new. Is that really a bad thing?

"But that heavy finish kills the tone."

Really? Then what's that I'm hearing?

Do these "cheap" guitars have any faults?

Yes. For one they really, really need a good setup.

I mean the reason they can be so cheap and so good is because the machines that make them are all computer driven. But there is still no computer that can set 'em up properly. And sometimes it seems that no one really tried too.

When I get them I immediately snip off the strings that came on them. Put on a set of my preferred weight and type. (On short scale guitars I like medium through heavy -- 10-52. Rotosound "Blues" are my current favs.)

Then I carefully set relief and let it settle over night. Then comes string height, intonation, and (especially important with P90 IMO) pickup height.

After that it's just making music. No fuss. No bother.

Oh, I also have changed the tuning machines on mine. On the Junior because it needed them -- it was ten years old when I got it and had been played hard. On the Special because I thought it would and had bought a pair before the guitar was delivered. (In fact the ones that came on it weren't half bad and would have more than sufficed.)

Some people elsewhere would likely be surprised at all the above. And newer players here on Epiphone Talk may be too. -Convinced by common lore that those other, pricier, guitars are really much better.

Older players like me know otherwise. Well, either that or have different standards of what makes a guitar good.

I love my "cheap" Epis. And Squiers. And you can take that (or the money it perhaps may help you save) to the bank.

:)

-don



El Cheapo headstock orig tuners.jpg
 
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Cenz

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Welcome to the Internet version on the House of Stathopoulos

I don't know you since I'm just a lurker at Squier-Talk, but I've read most of your posts and know your some of your musical history.

Again, welcome to the House.
 

MarkB

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Great post! There is no doubt that "cheap" guitars are way any better now than they were back in the day... Even when I was getting started in the late '80s!

I would query one point you make though... You say that the reason they are cheaper is that the manufacture is mechanised/computer driven. Sure a hand made product is going to be more expensive because it requires more "Man hours", but I would suggest that there are other reasons e.g. a) material costs, in part import duties etc. rather than simply the material itself but also to do with restricted access to certain materials eg. Hardwoods.

b) the cost of labour - this is a tricky one for me. I have never been to the Epi factory and I'm not making undue accusations or assertions about our beloved brand, but I know that in certain parts of the world people are paid wages that we in the West would not accept. This may be in part due to a lower cost of living but it may also be about employment practices which need to be challenged!

And c) marketing, as the old adage goes what something is worth is defined only by what people are willing to pay for it and in every sphere of commerce certain brands attract higher prices for no other reason than the label however nonsensical that may be/seem. E.g. Are Levis jeans that much better than supermarket jeans?
 

duceditor

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MarkD, I have no argument with any of your observations. Indeed just the way materials are chosen would merit a thread of its own. (And my being new here such may already have been thoroughly discussed!)

Looking at my Junior I can see several areas of obvious cost containment.

One is the way the headstock was made from a separate piece of wood from the neck. This allowed for two smaller pieces of wood to be used with less waste than if a single piece had been used and trimmed to shape.

The 2nd are the tuners. So-so metal and so-so metalwork.

Labor costs are certainly less. As are other costs of doing business -- areas I hesitate to even bring up because the discussion will quickly get passionate and political.

No, my piece such as it is was not meant to cover the subject encyclopedically. It was more a subjective look into what to me (and perhaps others) is fascinating subject.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

-don
 

Eddie

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Back around 1985, my brother picked up a used, cheap, off-name Flying V for $80. (Inflation calculator says that $177 in today's dollars).

It was a literal piece of junk. I mean garbage. Would you believe the guitar actually fell apart a year later ???

Today, $80 can get me a really nice used Squier Affinity that plays sweeter than sweet.

You gotta thank modern CNC technology as tolerances have become tighter and tighter. I can't attest for the lower end Epi's ... but the Squiers are extremely well built instruments. They play far better than their low price tag depicts.
 

duceditor

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I can't attest for the lower end Epi's ... but the Squiers are extremely well built instruments

So true. And indeed it was my purchase of two Squier Affinities back in '04 that opened my eyes to this truth.

The Tele has been played down to bare wood on parts of the neck. The Strat was played far less -- but just over the last couple of weeks I have modded it with some upscale parts and I am now playing it regularly.

My *real* introduction to what Squiers could be, though, waited until not quite three years ago. Having gotten back to my "roots" playing surf and pre-surf I decided to "chance" the purchase of a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar. It was a revelation! So much so that I very quickly added a VM Jazzmaster to my stable and it has become my most favored guiitar for playing that type of music.

Those are not just "good" guitars, they are GREAT guitars. As good in most respects as any I have ever played.

Here, btw, is some of the stuff I am doing with these. Instructional videos on surf and pre-surf rock instrumental music...



Fun stuff! That's for sure! :)

-don
 
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Cozmik Cowboy

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I am unfamiliar with your model, Don, so I can't be sure, but it sounds like you're describing a scarf joint. If so, perhaps it's not a cost consideration but a quality one, as scarf joints are far, far stronger than the one-piece carve traditional to Gibson (which is the reason so many Gibsons have repaired headstock breaks, after all).

And yes, Epis & Squiers rock! We live in the Golden Age of cheap guitars.
 
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duceditor

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it sounds like you're describing a scarf joint.

Yes, I have heard it described so.

I've heard too about the supposed advantage. Perhaps it is so. But Gibson, in trying to resolved this "problem" (more a matter of guitar shape -- the body on some models being thinner than the downward deflection of the headstock -- then an actual "weakness" in the wood) chose to do so by means of a "volute" as seen here in my 1980 ES-Artist. -An approach that Martin has used for years.

Volute.jpg

It may be that Gibson did not take the scarf joint approach despite it being superior for aesthetic reasons. Who can say? I do know that it looks kind of 'cheap' to me. But whatever the case it is what it is. And save wood it certainly does.

:)

-don
 

MarkB

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I can't speak for squiers, but I can say my MIM Tele is as good as a friends Americn Tele - saying that it doesn't have the original pups -the neck is wonderful.
 

wildeman

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I play my Epi P90 junior all the time, only thing i upgraded is the tuning heads. It sounds and plays GREAT! I have lots of guitars too and dont have to play such a cheap thing, i do it because i really like it.
 

DPaulCustom

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Weight is a factor for me. I have a "G" LP, & SG, but nowadays, most of my play time is either the LP special p90, or the SG jr single hum.
I had to shim the nut on the special, & it was great. The SG jr got new tuners, nut, & electronics, & a bit of bridge post work.
Luv em both.
Not counting upgrades, I've got $115 invested in both.
I love cheap guitars these days, so much more for the money.
Currently eyeballing this lil number
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/msg/5941146442.html
 

CheshireFrog

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My first guitar was a Telecaster copy made by Decca, one of several brands produced by Japanese manufacturer Teisco. With a single, no-name pickup, open tuners and no intonation adjustments on the bridge it was pretty typical of Japanese instruments from the '60s. I bought it from a friend in 1968 for $15.

There's no denying the truth of what you're saying. While instruments in the '70s were much less expensive than today, sub $100 instruments back then tended to be garbage. And while it's true that bottom of the line Epiphones represent a HUGE increase in quality over those days, I hate that some people view the company in that light.

Epiphone is so much more than a company that makes "cheap copies". LPs, Casinos, Wildkats and Rivieras may be much less expensive than the guitars they are patterned after, but they are by no means cheap. They have a particular appeal to people who don't want to lay out what could be thousands for a Gibson, Gretsch or a Guild but still demand a quality instrument. I think they represent the best dollar/performance ratio on the market.
 

wildeman

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Weight is a factor for me. I have a "G" LP, & SG, but nowadays, most of my play time is either the LP special p90, or the SG jr single hum.
I had to shim the nut on the special, & it was great. The SG jr got new tuners, nut, & electronics, & a bit of bridge post work.
Luv em both.
Not counting upgrades, I've got $115 invested in both.
I love cheap guitars these days, so much more for the money.
Currently eyeballing this lil number
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/msg/5941146442.html
Haha, I'd be all over that Aria if it was near me. Thats totally my kinda axe.
 

wildeman

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My first guitar was a Telecaster copy made by Decca, one of several brands produced by Japanese manufacturer Teisco. With a single, no-name pickup, open tuners and no intonation adjustments on the bridge it was pretty typical of Japanese instruments from the '60s. I bought it from a friend in 1968 for $15.

There's no denying the truth of what you're saying. While instruments in the '70s were much less expensive than today, sub $100 instruments back then tended to be garbage. And while it's true that bottom of the line Epiphones represent a HUGE increase in quality over those days, I hate that some people view the company in that light.

Epiphone is so much more than a company that makes "cheap copies". LPs, Casinos, Wildkats and Rivieras may be much less expensive than the guitars they are patterned after, but they are by no means cheap. They have a particular appeal to people who don't want to lay out what could be thousands for a Gibson, Gretsch or a Guild but still demand a quality instrument. I think they represent the best dollar/performance ratio on the market.
Agree, my Sheraton is as good as a guitar that would cost 4 times as much, and im not being delusional cause i've had the big buck stuff.
 

johnnywizzo

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Welcome, Don! I'm sure we know each other from a different forum. My first guitar was a Silvertone from the Sears catalog, also earned by mowing lawns and shovelling snow. I wasn't able to buy a good guitar until I had a real job, and it was a Martin D-28. Since then, I have had a slew of good guitars, always trading to try a different model, because I couldn't afford to keep everything. Now I have an assortment of "cheap guitars", mostly Epi's and Squiers. They are every bit as enjoyable as my Fenders and Gibsons, and I find myself playing them to the exclusion of my US models. Right now, my two favorites are two Epi's, a LP Special and an SG Special, both with humbuckers. At first I was convinced that these ceramic pickups had to be junk, but I've since changed my mind. I'm getting a wonderful tone through my Fender Deluxe Reverb. I am also fond of my two (Cherry and TV Yellow) Epi LP Specials with P90's. One of these days, I'm going to sell off a bunch, when I decide on my absolute favorites. These guitars are great, and it has been impossible to resist buying them at the low sales prices. Case in point, my "Black Friday" Epiphone LP Junior for $64!
 

Juke Box

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Keith Richards played a Harmony acoustic onstage until 1971.Mick used to play a cheap Silvertone onstage until the early 90s.

When the Stones started in the early 60s they were making million dollar hits playing $80 guitars like the Harmony H70
 

duceditor

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When the Stones started in the early 60s they were making million dollar hits playing $80 guitars like the Harmony H70

I've always seen their (and others) doing so as the equivalent of their wearing jeans on stage. Part of their 'working class hero' shtick. But of course that is just an impression from afar. :)

-don
 

MarkB

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Keith Richards played a Harmony acoustic onstage until 1971.Mick used to play a cheap Silvertone onstage until the early 90s.

When the Stones started in the early 60s they were making million dollar hits playing $80 guitars like the Harmony H70

Have you heard the quality some of their early recordings though! ;) Seriously, today's digital, stereo, etc. recording is probably a lot more transparent than it was then, as is the quality of the devices we use to listen on!

There also wasn't the same access to equipment, certainly here in the UK - some of it was just arriving, there wasno internet, or years of used gear available! Mind you I miss the old Denmark street!
 


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