Blown away by the Epiphone Les Paul Classic 2020

[Paruwi]

These days I just want to rock and have fun,

Welcome in the €piphone-Territory

 

[soulman969]

IMHO and my own experience Epi has really upped their game over the last decade or so and become far more innovative as a brand while Gibson is still attempting to live under it's antiquated "There's nothing like a Gibson" motto. Epi is catching up fast.

A jam buddy of mine and I have compared his Gibson ES339 and his '56 Gold Top P90 with my Epiphones and we both agreed there was not enough difference to justify the significant cost differences. The Epi models stacked up quite well in comparison.

I would agree however that there is a slight difference in the pickups. His P90s are a bit grittier than mine but I actually prefer the more open sounding Epiphones and the P90s in my new ES339 are even better. The humbuckers in my former ES339 are not the same models as his Gibson so a comparison was somewhat apples to bananas but again the Alnico Classics were brighter and less "wooly" which I prefer.

For their price IMHO Epiphones are right there at the top of the heap when compared with other imports in their price range and represent exceptional value as players guitars.

 

[soulman969]

But are they really Asian guitars? I mean, think about it. It's not like Asia invented the electric guitar or the American designs they manufacture. So surely they're still, technically, American guitars for this reason. Just American guitars being made by Asian people. Well, that's how I see it

Great point of view and one I'll be certain to remember.

 

[traumabunny]

Yeah. I meant Asian-made. People debate whether the wood used in Asia is as good as or as dry as the wood used in America. I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to get the answer.

I feel the same way myself. I'll never be a rockstar or a professional guitarist, so I don't need thousand dollar tone woods

IMHO and my own experience Epi has really upped their game over the last decade or so and become far more innovative as a brand while Gibson is still attempting to live under it's antiquated "There's nothing like a Gibson" motto. Epi is catching up fast.

A jam buddy of mine and I have compared his Gibson ES339 and his '56 Gold Top P90 with my Epiphones and we both agreed there was not enough difference to justify the significant cost differences. The Epi models stacked up quite well in comparison.

I would agree however that there is a slight difference in the pickups. His P90s are a bit grittier than mine but I actually prefer the more open sounding Epiphones and the P90s in my new ES339 are even better. The humbuckers in my former ES339 are not the same models as his Gibson so a comparison was somewhat apples to bananas but again the Alnico Classics were brighter and less "wooly" which I prefer.

For their price IMHO Epiphones are right there at the top of the heap when compared with other imports in their price range and represent exceptional value as players guitars.

I fully agree with you and your buddy. If anything, I actually think the Epiphone is BETTER made and I'll tell you why. I own several Gibsons and their truss rods suck. They have the worst truss rods I've ever experienced on any brand of guitar before. They feel flimsy, unreliable and cheap.

One of my Gibson's... I literally have to tinker with its truss rod whenever I change its strings. It's literally sensitive to the slightest shift in humidity or temperature, so it cannot be used live. Like ever. I've also had to have it re-fretted twice. One hour journey in a car and the fingerboard started to crack and spit out frets. Seriously, what the hell is that all about? It cost 3 grand and it's spitting out frets?!?

So I get it re-fretted, the "fret nibs" are lost forever and the guitar is hence "devalued" and blah blah blah in fact that's another ridiculous thing about Gibsons. You're forced to treat them like ornaments. Can't get them resprayed. Can't get them re-fretted. Can't upgrade their hardware. Can't change anything about them "or else". Man, I'm done I swear. No one can rock on a Gibson for these reasons. You can't have fun with a Gibson. What do they expect us to do, just stare at them? LOL

The truss rod in this Epiphone Les Paul is more responsive and feels more stable than Gibson truss rods. Its construction feels more stable too. Yeah, it has a few cosmetic flaws but my Gibson guitars arrived with more.

 

[soulman969]

So I get it re-fretted, the "fret nibs" are lost forever and the guitar is hence "devalued" and blah blah blah in fact that's another ridiculous thing about Gibsons. You're forced to treat them like ornaments. Can't get them resprayed. Can't get them re-fretted. Can't upgrade their hardware. Can't change anything about them "or else". Man, I'm done I swear. No one can rock on a Gibson for these reasons. You can't have fun with a Gibson. What do they expect us to do, just stare at them? LOL

This also tends to be true of top of the line Fenders albeit they aren't quite as pricey as a Gibson LP or an ES type. If anything has been modified in any way buyers want to hang a "partscaster" tag on them and lower their value regardless of whether mods are positive or not.

This is another reason why I buy less pricey imports and upgrade whatever might add to it's value and enjoyment for me. Then I tuck the stock parts away so I can return the guitar or bass to bone stock in the event a buyer doesn't want the upgrades or to pay for them.

To be completely honest though I have seldom sold any upgraded guitar or bass. Once I've made them as perfect for me as possible I have no motivation to do that. But what's always amusing is how prospects will put down upgrades to bargain for a lower price yet when I offer to remove them in order to lower my price all of a sudden they seem to gain value after all. LOL One guy even told me "oh just leave 'em and I'll fix it myself" (like I broke it somehow) but still wanted it at a bone stock price.

There are players who do gig their Gibsons but there are also those who collect them like my buddy and never gig. Even during jams I've never seen him play anything above an SG or one of his other solid bodies. The LPs and ES models never appear.

 

[traumabunny]

This also tends to be true of top of the line Fenders albeit they aren't quite as pricey as a Gibson LP or an ES type. If anything has been modified in any way buyers want to hang a "partscaster" tag on them and lower their value regardless of whether mods are positive or not.

This is another reason why I buy less pricey imports and upgrade whatever might add to it's value and enjoyment for me. Then I tuck the stock parts away so I can return the guitar or bass to bone stock in the event a buyer doesn't want the upgrades or to pay for them.

To be completely honest though I have seldom sold any upgraded guitar or bass. Once I've made them as perfect for me as possible I have no motivation to do that. But what's always amusing is how prospects will put down upgrades to bargain for a lower price yet when I offer to remove them in order to lower my price all of a sudden they seem to gain value after all. LOL One guy even told me "oh just leave 'em and I'll fix it myself" (like I broke it somehow) but still wanted it at a bone stock price.

There are players who do gig their Gibsons but there are also those who collect them like my buddy and never gig. Even during jams I've never seen him play anything above an SG or one of his other solid bodies. The LPs and ES models never appear.

I wish I had your attitude before I was dumb enough to go down the Gibson route.

I recently watched a short documentary about an original Gibson '59 Les Paul. The luthier had it laid out on a workbench and he was discussing its construction and how it was made. That's when it dawned on me... Gibson have always produced low quality guitars and that's why they've endeavoured to improve the design of the Les Paul every year since its first run. Well, it's now 2020 and they still haven't gotten it right.

Now we have a selection to choose from, Classic, Standard, Traditional and Modern... well, what'll be next? Hopefully "functional"

The '59 in question had been assembled from materials so cheap I doubt a so called bargain brand like Epiphone would use them today. We're talking about post WW2, economically friendly Cold War grade tone wood, inlays, binding and hardware that was so poorly made there's was no way it could've lasted more than a few years and that's why it didn't. That's why all those early Les Paul's required re-frets and a bunch of other maintenance work to function.

And even then, guitarists still switched over to the SG in the hopes that it was a more reliable alternative and that's why it became more popular than the Les Paul.

The luthier made excuses for its constructional flaws (and there were many) by saying, "oh well, this is just how handmade guitars were made back then...". If someone bought a LP in that kind of condition today they'd demand a refund. Yet original '59's are among the most sought after guitars on earth. Why? They suck.

I've already pre-ordered the Epiphone 1959 Les Paul Standard Outfit because I know it'll be better than the "real thing". It'll be better made. It'll have better parts. It'll have better tone woods.

So you're right, buying less expensive guitars is the way to go. I no longer consider them foreign guitars. They're just American guitars built overseas. I've been rambling away... but ultimately, I've been forced to ask myself the following question: why buy Gibson? For the price of an Epiphone Les Paul + upgrades I'd still have plenty of cash spare for an amp or something cool lol

Best of all, the instrument in question is actually built to last. So that it can be used and gigged and relied on in a studio. Rather than a Gibson, which are created to have an expiry date. You know, that whole "relic'd" look thing. Why spend thousands on a beautiful paint job when it's only gonna last a few years? lol I'm not making these mistakes anymore. Epiphone all the way!

 

[Davis Sharp]

@traumabunny - just make sure your true feelings don't show when you put your Gibsons on Reverb or eBay.

 

[traumabunny]

@traumabunny - just make sure your true feelings don't show when you put your Gibsons on Reverb or eBay.

lol I'm gonna be upfront with people man, I'm on a mission now. People deserve the truth and it'll make up for all those years I was a jerk.

I hate the idea of ripping a fellow musician off. I'll never forget how starry-eyed I was when I got my first Gibson. I was expecting the thing to have magic powers (for that price) I was expecting flawless playability and a bunch of other things too. I played it for 5 minutes and my heart sank. Then I went through the "maybe it's me" phase because I couldn't admit to myself that it sucked. "It must be me... I guess I need to practice more...", despite the fact that I'd won several guitar contests and I could fly around on my other guitars, which played and sounded better than the Gibson Custom

So I "accepted it" because hey, it's a work of art right? It's a Gibson after all lol so it must be a fault in me. A "guitarist never blames his tools" after all...

I saved up for another Gibson only to go through the same thing all over again. Then I went through the paying to have them set-up phase, "oh if I have them set up like my other guitars then maybe..."

"Oh if I buy a String Butler maybe they'll stay in tune when I'm playing live..."

"Oh if I buy some TonePro's hardware maybe the intonation will be better..."

"Oh if I buy Obsidian Wire maybe I won't have to EQ them so much..."

No more. They're a money trap.

Gibson owners need to be more up front about how much this brand sucks.

Epiphone builds guitars. Gibson makes ornaments.

 

[BGood]

Every time I go in a store with Gibson SG, I make it a point to try them out to compare with both my Vintage G400. I really want to find one to see what I've been missing. Up to now, I never played one (unplugged) that came close to either of my '03 or '04.

The bottom one on that picture is gone.

​

 

[Rick Davey]

Yeah. I meant Asian-made. People debate whether the wood used in Asia is as good as or as dry as the wood used in America. I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to get the answer.

I think it can absolutely be as good as any sourced in North America. I have a Tele partscaster with an Allparts neck. Those are made by Fender Japan. It is an absolutely perfect piece of maple, clear and harder than I thought possible. Very dry. It has not needed a truss rod adjustment in 12 years.

 

[soulman969]

I wish I had your attitude before I was dumb enough to go down the Gibson route.

I wasn't born with it brother it was acquired over time and through experience.

In the '60s Gibson LPs were almost non-existent and I've always disliked SGs so like many others I bought Fenders with the exception of one Gibson EB0 bass which lasted less than 6 months. I didn't like it any more that I did the SG.

Through swaps and whatever I eventually ended up with a '74 LP Deluxe that weighed far more than any of my basses so it pretty much lived at home while I gigged my basses and my Teles. I sold it years ago as I did all of that "great" '60s Fender gear that would be worth a small fortune today. But I don't miss it.

There is no more magic or mojo in that stuff than anything I play now. My PBass is an upgraded Matt Freeman Squier CV. It's the best I've ever played and it cost me $300 new which is about what a mid '60s Fender PBass sold for then. Today it's $1500 and they aren't worth 5x what mine is if anything at all.

I've significantly upgraded two more CV Teles and a CV Jazz Bass. My Epi ES339 P90 Pro got little cosmetic face lift with silver/nickel pickup covers and chrome dome knobs just to give it a different look and my Casino is bone stock, although I will also get nickel/silver cover IF I can can ever get the dad blamed stock ones off.

My '56 Gold Top Tribute is an older model that I may keep messing with just because. I did install a Faber Steel Bridge and Eserts and some day I may replace the pickups but mostly because I'm running out of stuff to do with any of the others. I bought it cheap enough that I don't mind messing with it some and at least this ones doesn't weigh nearly 12 lbs.

I just enjoy working on good basic guitars and basses looking for ways to improve them without spending a great deal of money. I can do the work myself so it's only the parts cost I'm dealing with and my own time plus it keeps me out of the bars.

 

[SirMilo]

At the risk of sounding like a hater, one of these two guitars is still around. Care to guess which one?
I'm really not hating on Gibson but it's another perfect example of a company surviving on the name and history, not the quality of the product for the money spent.

This Peavey spanked the 61RI in every possible way although it is admittedly a different beast other than a smallish body and long neck. The only thing the SG excelled at was neck dive. The 61RI was replaced with a used $180 Korean G400 and I never missed the Gibson.

 

[traumabunny]

At the risk of sounding like a hater, one of these two guitars is still around. Care to guess which one?
I'm really not hating on Gibson but it's another perfect example of a company surviving on the name and history, not the quality of the product for the money spent.

This Peavey spanked the 61RI in every possible way although it is admittedly a different beast other than a smallish body and long neck. The only thing the SG excelled at was neck dive. The 61RI was replaced with a used $180 Korean G400 and I never missed the Gibson.

View attachment 12428

You're right. They are surviving on their name and history to make up for their lack of quality. If I had an entourage of on-call guitar techs around (like a touring rockstar does) I'm sure I could make my Gibsons play as well as theirs do and if I had a professional sound crew mixing my live performances I'm sure I could make them sound as good too lol

But I don't. I'm just another no-name sucker with a "Gibson collection" so the joke's on me. Looking back... the Gibson logo was just a shield I was hiding behind to compensate for this fact. Distract people with the logo, you know? Razzle dazzle them with it. Then maybe they won't notice that I'm actually a nobody LOL

Ultimately if a guitar isn't fun or enjoyable to play it won't inspire you to play it. Then no riffs happen, no songs, nothing. It just becomes an ornament or some kind of trophy and that's all my Gibsons are.

One thing I hate most about Gibsons is the whole "never change them" rule. Can't modify them. Upgrade them. Or even get them re-fretted without it breaking this rule and devaluing the guitar. It's crazy. Whereas if you upgraded any other instrument, well it's a different story.

 

[musicmaniac]

I've got to say while I love my Epi's I can't complain like you are about my Gibsons. I don't see the "never change them" rule anywhere I frequent. And I've upgraded a few to my liking too. And I get the whole not worry about playing the cheaper guitar too. It's great you feel that way about your new guitar but this rant you're on isn't true for everybody. Seems like you're going a little overboard to me. But hey, your experience is obviously different than mine.

 

[Gary Thompson]

I'm a longtime Gibson user/owner and this is my first ever Epiphone. I ordered the Epiphone Les Paul Classic in gloss finish (which comes stock with CTS pots)

I bought it out of curiosity/lockdown boredom and because its upgraded headstock looks cool.

I wasn't expecting much from it because I'm a cork sniffing Gibbo guy... but I'm frankly shocked by how awesome it is and I'm now kicking myself for wasting thousands on Gibson guitars.

I can't believe I'm about to say this but it actually plays and holds tuning better than my Gibson Les Paul Custom. .003 relief in the neck and .70/.40 action at the 12th fret, no buzzing or dead notes anywhere. That's the kind of effortless playability I always expected from Gibson and their plek jobs!!!

I was expecting it to have action a mile high, too much neck relief and fret buzz everywhere.

I've literally played my Gibsons back to back against this thing, they're supposed to be better and they're meant to play better than Epiphone's do. But this guitar is more playable and fun than they are.

It also has better resonance and sustain, I'm presuming the poly finish has something to do with that? It's just surprising to me. I could record sound samples to prove this.

The plain maple top looks gorgeous. The guitar feels more solid and reliable than my Gibsons

The Indian Laurel fingerboard is slightly lighter than the product pictures and the inlays look a bit tacky, but I could always stain the board and upgrade the inlays if I wanted to. In fact, I might do that and post the pictures here

The pickups aren't even comparable to Gibson pickups but I actually like them a lot. I think they're adequate for a lot of tones. In fact, I reckon this would sound no different to a Gibson LP if I upgraded its pots and pickups.

Just, wow.

Hi mate sounds amazing... what puts me off a new epiphone is usually that there is a high fret somewhere. Could it just be you have been lucky??

 

[BGood]

Hi mate sounds amazing... what puts me off a new epiphone is usually that there is a high fret somewhere. Could it just be you have been lucky??

Most of the time, that high fret just needs to be gently tapped down.

 

[Old Woody]

I'm a longtime Gibson user/owner and this is my first ever Epiphone. I ordered the Epiphone Les Paul Classic in gloss finish (which comes stock with CTS pots)

I bought it out of curiosity/lockdown boredom and because its upgraded headstock looks cool.

I wasn't expecting much from it because I'm a cork sniffing Gibbo guy... but I'm frankly shocked by how awesome it is and I'm now kicking myself for wasting thousands on Gibson guitars.

I can't believe I'm about to say this but it actually plays and holds tuning better than my Gibson Les Paul Custom. .003 relief in the neck and .70/.40 action at the 12th fret, no buzzing or dead notes anywhere. That's the kind of effortless playability I always expected from Gibson and their plek jobs!!!

I was expecting it to have action a mile high, too much neck relief and fret buzz everywhere.

I've literally played my Gibsons back to back against this thing, they're supposed to be better and they're meant to play better than Epiphone's do. But this guitar is more playable and fun than they are.

It also has better resonance and sustain, I'm presuming the poly finish has something to do with that? It's just surprising to me. I could record sound samples to prove this.

The plain maple top looks gorgeous. The guitar feels more solid and reliable than my Gibsons

The Indian Laurel fingerboard is slightly lighter than the product pictures and the inlays look a bit tacky, but I could always stain the board and upgrade the inlays if I wanted to. In fact, I might do that and post the pictures here

The pickups aren't even comparable to Gibson pickups but I actually like them a lot. I think they're adequate for a lot of tones. In fact, I reckon this would sound no different to a Gibson LP if I upgraded its pots and pickups.

Just, wow.


Well, Im glad you like your new Eppi I own two both masterbilt acoustics and I love them however, I have a Gibson firebird that I'll put up against any bird that Epi makes but it's possible I just have not played the right one, imo all makers of guitars make good one's and not so good ones I owned a Danelectro from Korea in the 90's that was a sweet guitar for under $200.00 so price means nothing to the ears.

 

[Old Woody]

Well, I'm glad you like your new Eppi I own two both masterbilt acoustics and I love them however, I have a Gibson firebird that I'll put up against any bird that Epi makes but it's possible I just have not played the right one, imo all makers of guitars make good one's and not so good ones. I owned a Danelectro from Korea in the 90's that was a sweet guitar for under $200.00 so price means nothing to the ears.[/QUOTE]

 

[Christopher M DiDonna]

I have the classic in ebony its amazing guitar. Only thing is ebony is a mf to keep clean.

I just put a preorder in for the new 2020 59 outfit that comes with a set of gibson usa PAF pickups and the case. Gotta wait till.october for it though

 

[Old Woody]

ah man, I hate YouTube. If I uploaded a video there all hell would break loose. Is there anyway I can upload things here, directly? So it's just between us and this forum?

Now that I own an Epiphone I suspect all those YouTube comparison videos of EQing Gibson's to sound "better" to prevent arguments. I'm also guilty of bashing Epiphones in an elitist way and I'd never even played one before. I just did it to puff myself up, like having a Gibson made me some kind of "authority"

I also only bought Gibson's in the past to trick myself into believing that I'm a "rockstar" and to deceive other people into believing that I'm a "professional". I'm neither. I was just being an egotistical idiot and a poser. I'm just another nobody who enjoys playing guitar and I'm cool with that.

It took buying an Epiphone to make me realize that Gibson guitars actually suck. They're just ridiculously expensive copies of cheap guitars from last century which were assembled from low quality parts that failed to stand the test of time. Inlays that'd rot or catch fire. Binding that'd shrink or warp. Fingerboards that'd crack or spit out frets. Finishes that wouldn't last more than a year and necks that have the breaking strain of a matchstick

They're crap guitars. They really are. Playing this Epiphone back to back next to them has been a game changer

Hello Bunny, welcome ! I'm about to pull the trigger on one of the new Epi Les Paul 59 reissues when they become available ( around September according to most sellers) I've owned four Gibsons none of them over $1000 two Les Paul Studio's ( was not impressed with the setup or tone didn't want to put in new pickups so I flipped them) a Gibson Sonex (The Dirty Finger Zebra pickups were replaced when I bought it had a SD 59 and a Lawrence blade pickup circa 1983 so I paid $300 for that Gibson which didn't sound that bad but it was heavy so I sold it) and currently I own a 2017 Gibson Firebird HP model which sounds good but I had to replace the tuners that guitar cost me $999 on account of Gibson's Bankruptcy. I own an Epi Acoustic "Excellante" which I love I sold an Epi AJ-45 which I'm kicking myself for because I loved that guitar as well. Please post some pic's and if you can record your comparison you can upload a sound recording to soundcloud and post a link here. (they give you 180 min's of upload time for free).