Climate Emergency

[Raiyn]

we can't have a plastic straw in our Diet Coke from Mcdonalds at lunch.

What's this "we" business? I have several reusable straws (some plastic, some stainless) that go with us when we go places. They're easily washed, and easily available.

Ignore these demons.

 

[Otto99]

Folks, massive melts of ancient ice are still happening, and faster than we would like. And I tire of hearing it’s happened over time, there’s been ups and downs. Yes, the fossil record supports this, but in the last 250 or so years, we’ve dumped a lot of coal smoke and other shyte into the air. It’s called the Industrial Revolution. Add all the other pollutants over those couple of centuries have sped up what was natural. @Juke Box, you’re just wrong. And I apologize to my international brethren for my government’s recent idiocy in abandoning clean policy.

 

[Stuart]

No matter how tempting, no politics here please @Otto99

I need this thread to stay alive

 

[DigitalDreams]

https://interestingengineering.com/...melting-glaciers-turned-into-a-charging-river Wow...

 

[Lancpudn]

Well it's now official, July was the warmest month everywhere since records began, Scary.

The European Union’s Copernicus Climate Change Service has reported that July 2019 “was the warmest month the world has experienced since record-keeping began more than a century ago,”

https://electrek.co/

 

[Stuart]

EV Transport is another target item, & I still owe @Digger a researched response in regard to that.

Albeit from the UK, this is an interesting article from Jan’19 re current towing options in EVs...

Whilst possible, I recognise that the reported options appear quite limited...

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/160343/towing-with-a-hybrid-plug-in-hybrid-or-electric-car?amp

But, FWIW @Digger, I have identified a public recharging point on the Genoa-Mallacoota Road

 

[saipan]

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

doesnt take a genius to see the trend.

 

[Digger]

Albeit from the UK, this is an interesting article from Jan’19 re current towing options in EVs...

Whilst possible, I recognise that the reported options appear quite limited...

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/160343/towing-with-a-hybrid-plug-in-hybrid-or-electric-car?amp

But, FWIW @Digger, I have identified a public recharging point on the Genoa-Mallacoota Road

Thanks Stu, would it accomodate 100 vehicles per hour I wonder?

There are some interesting things that occur to me in this headlong rush to embrace electric vehicles (not hybrids) based on the lifestyle we enjoy in this country. Looking at endurance estimates of electric vehicles currently, many wouldn’t make it to Cann River from here! (200 kilometres approx.) Trying to picture the recharging set up, again at Cann because that is a real situation to me as I go through there regularly.
You can’t just swap batteries like Swap and Go LPG gas bottles as they are too heavy, and with limited life nobody is going to accept an older replacement if theirs is new. So that means charging in situ.

I wonder how long it takes to charge a battery that is almost empty? How big would the charging station have to be to accomodate charging vehicles sitting for that time? (acres?) Fuel stations today might throughput 50 (guess) an hour in busier times. How much real estate and concrete would be need to accomodate even half of that number sitting there for that sort of time? Say an hour for top up, 2 for a fill? What do the drivers do in that time, and then every 2 hours?
With current technology It can take overnight to charge a fully depleted battery as I underrstand, or a rapid charger can add 100 kilometres in about 35 minutes. So at best they are stuck for an hour every 2 hours based on current technology.
Assuming that weight reduces the distance a battery operated vehicle can go, what happens if I tow a boat or caravan? My Ford gets about half the mileage towing a small aluminium boat! What if I’m towing an 18’ caravan? So range is maybe 100 kilometres? Yeah that’s going to work in a country like Australia…not! What about trucks and commercial vehicles? What about those many who head off road? Sitting in a remote area waiting for a trickle charger off a solar panel to give them enough power to get out of the way of an approaching bushfire, or back to civilisation in a medical emergency….not likely!

With combined LPG and petrol I have over 1100 kilometres range and to consider bringing that back to 2 or 300 kilometres just isn’t going to be an acceptable proposition.

Imagine school holidays with hundreds of vehicles needing to recharge every couple of hours in small country towns….bloody ridiculous!
There are hundreds of vehicles going through Cann River which I'm using as my example, every hour and trying to recharge them using current technology is too ridiculous to even consider!

What if you run out of juice before you get to a charging station, and how frequent would that be? Roadside assistance would involve an expensive tow to the nearest town I guess.

To set arbitrary timelines of a full conversion to electric vehicles at such an early stage of the development seems crazy, just assuming that it’s all going to happen in time. Politicians expressing a wish list to please their peers rather than a realistic scenario I think.

Many of us live outside cities and are forced to drive a lot of miles to get places. Most of us in this country drive long distances for holidays and recreation. Holiday times maybe 3 out of 4 are towing something, boats, trailers caravans, or more. There isn’t the public transport infra structure in these places to compensate for not using a vehicle.

So whilst I wish it was an answer, I don’t see it being real for a long, long time, other than for city commuters or small European countries where distance isn’t an issue. Then again the benefits of electric vehicles come only if the power charging them comes totally from renewables.

I won’t even consider what happens to all those batteries once they reach the end of their life span, or devaluation of vehicles as batteries age. There are a lot of issues to be worked through, as I’m sure they will be in time, but quite a bit of time!

Off my soapbox now…sorry.

 

[Stuart]

All valid concerns @Digger...

Best science now says that we have only 5-7 years to solve these problems...

Looking forward to watching Attenborough’s new take on this on the ABC this Sunday night

 

[Digger]

All valid concerns @Digger...

Best science now says that we have only 5-7 years to solve these problems...

Looking forward to watching Attenborough’s new take on this on the ABC this Sunday night

Thanks for the heads up I’ll make sure I watch it.

 

[Lancpudn]

Thanks Stu, would it accomodate 100 vehicles per hour I wonder?

There are some interesting things that occur to me in this headlong rush to embrace electric vehicles (not hybrids) based on the lifestyle we enjoy in this country. Looking at endurance estimates of electric vehicles currently, many wouldn’t make it to Cann River from here! (200 kilometres approx.) Trying to picture the recharging set up, again at Cann because that is a real situation to me as I go through there regularly.
You can’t just swap batteries like Swap and Go LPG gas bottles as they are too heavy, and with limited life nobody is going to accept an older replacement if theirs is new. So that means charging in situ.

I wonder how long it takes to charge a battery that is almost empty? How big would the charging station have to be to accomodate charging vehicles sitting for that time? (acres?) Fuel stations today might throughput 50 (guess) an hour in busier times. How much real estate and concrete would be need to accomodate even half of that number sitting there for that sort of time? Say an hour for top up, 2 for a fill? What do the drivers do in that time, and then every 2 hours?
With current technology It can take overnight to charge a fully depleted battery as I underrstand, or a rapid charger can add 100 kilometres in about 35 minutes. So at best they are stuck for an hour every 2 hours based on current technology.
Assuming that weight reduces the distance a battery operated vehicle can go, what happens if I tow a boat or caravan? My Ford gets about half the mileage towing a small aluminium boat! What if I’m towing an 18’ caravan? So range is maybe 100 kilometres? Yeah that’s going to work in a country like Australia…not! What about trucks and commercial vehicles? What about those many who head off road? Sitting in a remote area waiting for a trickle charger off a solar panel to give them enough power to get out of the way of an approaching bushfire, or back to civilisation in a medical emergency….not likely!

With combined LPG and petrol I have over 1100 kilometres range and to consider bringing that back to 2 or 300 kilometres just isn’t going to be an acceptable proposition.

Imagine school holidays with hundreds of vehicles needing to recharge every couple of hours in small country towns….bloody ridiculous!
There are hundreds of vehicles going through Cann River which I'm using as my example, every hour and trying to recharge them using current technology is too ridiculous to even consider!

What if you run out of juice before you get to a charging station, and how frequent would that be? Roadside assistance would involve an expensive tow to the nearest town I guess.

To set arbitrary timelines of a full conversion to electric vehicles at such an early stage of the development seems crazy, just assuming that it’s all going to happen in time. Politicians expressing a wish list to please their peers rather than a realistic scenario I think.

Many of us live outside cities and are forced to drive a lot of miles to get places. Most of us in this country drive long distances for holidays and recreation. Holiday times maybe 3 out of 4 are towing something, boats, trailers caravans, or more. There isn’t the public transport infra structure in these places to compensate for not using a vehicle.

So whilst I wish it was an answer, I don’t see it being real for a long, long time, other than for city commuters or small European countries where distance isn’t an issue. Then again the benefits of electric vehicles come only if the power charging them comes totally from renewables.

I won’t even consider what happens to all those batteries once they reach the end of their life span, or devaluation of vehicles as batteries age. There are a lot of issues to be worked through, as I’m sure they will be in time, but quite a bit of time!

Off my soapbox now…sorry.

There's no doubt people who live out in the countryside & have to travel long distances are going to be hard pressed, Today's technology is not yet geared up for those people if comparing it to ICE vehicles.

A PHEV is the only option in those circumstances. Most cities/towns over here will soon have ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zones) and unless you have the latest Euro Cat 6 engine you wont be allowed to drive there.
My Kia Niro hybrid is a Euro Cat 6 but even that will be banned in some places because it still has an ICE.

The new V3 chargers are out in some countries now & are charging at a rate of 250Kw, You can get a charge of 100 miles in seven minutes with those, It will taper off the longer you charge so as not to overheat the batteries.
https://electrek.co/2019/07/02/tesla-supercharger-v3-range-minutes/

I read China has started a battery recycling scheme which will track the battery pack throughout it's life for recycling, Lots of battery packs are being refurbished and given a second life as battery storage units and are in high demand here.

 

[Digger]

I’m sure that technology will make great strides before 2050 Ian but our situation is totally unlike yours or in Europe.

I’ve been known to drive 10 hours straight when trying to get somewhere on holidays.

 

[Otto99]

I’m sure that technology will make great strides before 2050 Ian but our situation is totally unlike yours or in Europe.

I’ve been known to drive 10 hours straight when trying to get somewhere on holidays.

Same here. I’d buy a PHEV for city use in a heartbeat - the BMW i3 is a little rocket sled! - but still need the van to haul the booth and stuff around for shows, and the Touring for, well, touring.

 

[Lancpudn]

I’m sure that technology will make great strides before 2050 Ian but our situation is totally unlike yours or in Europe.

I’ve been known to drive 10 hours straight when trying to get somewhere on holidays.

Yeah It's not going to work for everyone especially for countries the size of Australia & North America.........You'll have to buy a horse mate

That 2050 figure is already being talked down by 10 years! ICE car sales by virtually all the manufacturers have fallen off a cliff this year here and we're nowhere near the ICE ban yet.

'Charge4Europe' have just announced that they will be installing 100K chargers before 2020

 

[Raiyn]

You can’t just swap batteries like Swap and Go LPG gas bottles as they are too heavy, and with limited life nobody is going to accept an older replacement if theirs is new. So that means charging in situ

Well the battery swap thing was addressed about 6 years ago, but not developed further.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-shuts-down-battery-swap-program-for-superchargers/

 

[Stuart]

Well, school holiday traffic will be eliminated in conjunction with school children... We don’t have until 2050

 

[Lancpudn]

Well the battery swap thing was addressed about 6 years ago, but not developed further.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-shuts-down-battery-swap-program-for-superchargers/

The port of Zeebrugge is geared up for EV's coming off the transport ships. Probably what a future "petrol station" will look like.

 

[Davis Sharp]

'Charge4Europe' have just announced that they will be installing 100K chargers before 2020

Is there a European or EU standard for the charging ports across auto makers? My understanding is that the US does not have one, but people can buy adapters. Which is kind of stupid because if you replace "charging port" with gas hole (or whatever it's called), people would insist on a standard.

 

[Raiyn]

Is there a European or EU standard for the charging ports across auto makers? My understanding is that the US does not have one, but people can buy adapters. Which is kind of stupid because if you replace "charging port" with gas hole (or whatever it's called), people would insist on a standard.

There is a standard. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

 

[Lancpudn]

Is there a European or EU standard for the charging ports across auto makers? My understanding is that the US does not have one, but people can buy adapters. Which is kind of stupid because if you replace "charging port" with gas hole (or whatever it's called), people would insist on a standard.

Yeah Europe is type 2 & USA is type 1 then throw in Chademo which is still being used in Japan/China and the UK etc, Everyone is trying to get CCS as world standard, it's a silly situation where some people need to carry different charging connector cables with them.

That coupled with the different mobile phone apps/RFID payment methods for each electric operator it's ridiculous. Every BEV owner over here needs a bunch of RFID cards in their wallets & numerous online accounts /phone apps for payment methods before you even plug your car into the charger! Crazy.