Epi Les Paul owners - Do you upgrade your bridge & tail piece?

  • Thread starter Daniel Desmarais
  • Start date
  • This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.

Equalphone

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Messages
659
Reaction score
1,153
About the bridge, someone at GFS, knew how far to put the saddles on the Wilkinson Roller bridge, it came out of the box perfectly intonated .
The other two for my 1974 Gibson LPC and 1971 Gibson Flying V, both only needed slight adjustment on the G and D string .

The Wilkinson Roller Bridge is far better than style of Gibson / Epiphone bridge. Like a Tone Pro, the Wilkinson locks down at the mounting post, as well as the saddles.
The tuning stability improved by at least 85% and with the Schaller tailpiece with fine tuners, making ease of tuning just inches away ( instead of 2 ft.) , I can do two Whole step bends and not going out of tune .

After installing the roller bridge and the fine tuning tailpiece, my two LPC's and Flying-V's tuning stability improved by 85 % - 90% .

Interesting. I don't know if I could deal with the appearance, but the engineering looks sound.

Do you lock it down at the head like a Floyd or still have the conventional nut and tuners?
 

DECEMBER

Active Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Messages
60
Reaction score
109
I tune to drop-D, A=432Hz with 54 38 28 20w 15 11, so stock TOM bridges often don't have enough range for intonation. I use the Hipshot Tone-A-Matic bridge. Wider saddle range and it has set screws to push the bridge off the posts in either direction. Much wider intonation range.
It's $200 but it's the last bridge you'll ever buy.
But my damn screwdriver is short, so the handle has been rubbing on the tailpiece, making those marks in the finish. It's too short. If you get one, use a longer screwdriver.
Lol, just realized I already posted on this thread... But here's a pic.

1000004591.jpg
 
Last edited:

spupilup

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2023
Messages
127
Reaction score
295
@spupilup Interesting ! Did you have to remove / change the inserts in the guitar's body or were you able to drop the posts into the inserts ?
I used the original bushings (inserts) but, when I work on my ‘59, I think I’ll order up the higher quality Faber bushings. They’re only about $20 and couldn't hurt.
 

BlueSquirrel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
875
Reaction score
1,530
But replacing the bushings can be a risky operation, that's why I was asking and I thank you very much for your answer.
 

spupilup

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2023
Messages
127
Reaction score
295
But replacing the bushings can be a risky operation, that's why I was asking and I thank you very much for your answer.
From all the videos I watched, it didn‘t think it was too risky. I plan on doing it the Next couple of weeks. I’ll let you know how it goes and what improvements I find, if any.
 

BlueSquirrel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
875
Reaction score
1,530
Sorry, I've erased my message which was irrelevant here as it was meant for another thread. 😉
 
Last edited:

Epison

Active Member
Joined
May 8, 2022
Messages
126
Reaction score
187
From all the videos I watched, it didn‘t think it was too risky. I plan on doing it the Next couple of weeks. I’ll let you know how it goes and what improvements I find, if any.
It's super easy and ot at all risky unless you're as clumbsy as a drunken grizzly. As to the improvement, i love what one set of faber bushings on the bridge did for the tone and ordered a second set due next week for the stop bar. (and a aluminum stop bar, tho thats a 50/50 proposition) I really thing epiphones and a lot of other budget overseas guitars are hindered tonally more because of the hardware than pickups or anything else. In the case of epis with TOM i thing it;s a huge improvement. The bridge bushings helped get it sounding about 1/2 way there to a quality USA LP tone and if the rest doesn't get 100% of the way there i will likely go with a bridge too
 

spupilup

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2023
Messages
127
Reaction score
295
Faber has 25% off for Black Friday so I just ordered everything to convert my 59 and the bushings to finish off my Special. It may be a week or two before I can do the installations but, if you were ever thinking of trying the Faber bridge and tail piece upgrades, now’s is a good time to do it.
 

stevekolt

Active Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2023
Messages
51
Reaction score
143
Just got my ”Wraptonate“ bridge, and “Wraplock” studs for my Special in aged nickel. Planning to install them next string change. Have had a full Faber set on my Gibson Custom Shop ES 339 for a while, and love the sound/functionality/looks. Thinking really hard about getting a set for my Epi Casino…
 

Epison

Active Member
Joined
May 8, 2022
Messages
126
Reaction score
187
Well as i said i replaced the bridge bushings on my '23 50s standard about a week ago with faber steel and today i replaced the stop bar with a gotoh aluminum one. The bridge bushings made a definate improvement in clarity on the wound strings which is my #1 issue, but not to enough of a degree. Surprisingly the stop bar didn't do a lot and i'm not sure if it was an improvement but i'd say it was but sightly. But i did not use the steel bushings it came with because they weren't the right size. I did however try the gotoh with the stock studs which are steel AND later with the gotoh studs that are plated brass. The brass did sound better in all respects but one, and unfortunately that one negative was exactly what i was hoping to cure, the wound string dullness. They made it slightly worse. However, i still have the second set of faber bushings on the way and those will be used for the stop bar and we shall see whether that fixes my issue, and if so i will try the brass studs again. If the bushings clear up the dull low strings and the brass studs can then be used without messing up the clarity the bushings bring, that would be great. But that will have t wait till tuesday. I think what i really need are titanium saddles on the wound strings. That and brass on the plain strings I think might be perfect. Funny tho.....i put a aluminum bar on a gibson LP special several years ago and it made a big difference, tho not to the good.
 
Last edited:

Epison

Active Member
Joined
May 8, 2022
Messages
126
Reaction score
187
Screw it, I'm tired of telling you people that you don't need to pull the bushings to replace stuff.

Go ahead FAFO
I think you may be misunderstanding.....i think most like me replace them not because we think they wont fit new studs, but because the stock bushings are pot metal and steel bushings sound clearer and more lively.
 

LP_SPC_1_P90

Active Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2023
Messages
123
Reaction score
201
Original parts until they fail. Even if they tarnish or corrode. I figure that's patina, the relic process in action. As long as the parts aren't breaking strings & holding tune & intonation that's all you can ask of a part, to function like it should. Same goes for the pickups, as long as the DCR remains relatively constant, I've got no problem with the tone that comes out of them.
 

Mike Hickey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2022
Messages
166
Reaction score
291
I would change the bridge/trail piece if it would significantly increase the definition of the bass strings. From what I've read, it doesn't make a lot of difference. Other than pickups, stock is probably less problematic. Even pickup swaps can be a crap shoot.
 

Epison

Active Member
Joined
May 8, 2022
Messages
126
Reaction score
187
I would change the bridge/trail piece if it would significantly increase the definition of the bass strings. From what I've read, it doesn't make a lot of difference. Other than pickups, stock is probably less problematic. Even pickup swaps can be a crap shoot.
But it does, at least some parts do. Your issue is the same one that has me upgrading. The bushings are IMO important because they are the bottleneck between the strings and body. They're light pot metal and the fabers are carbon steel. Just one set for the bridge made a notable difference and have a second set on the way for the tailpeice. So far with the aluminum stop bar and bridge bushing it's made a considerable difference, and no doubt if you do it all it will be huge. IMO and from many years of experience upgrading import guitars, it's always been the hardware thats been the bottleneck that separates their tone from their USA counterparts. With the epiphone theres a lot of parts there holding them back. At the very least i'd replace both the bridge ad tailpiece bushings. For $40 it's gonna be a cheap and good improvement. I would do that if i were you then if you need more try a 3 piece set of titanium saddles for the wound strings if u can find a set tat will fit.
 

DHart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
223
Reaction score
506
While I have replaced pickups and wiring harnesses with USA components, I have never felt any need to replace Epiphone bridges, nor tailpieces.
 

NU9

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Messages
21
Reaction score
43
I replaced my 1960 Tribute bridge with a Faber ABR1, E-sert studs (brass) and a Gotoh aluminum tailpiece (with Faber steel bushings). The tailpiece studs are Gotoh brass.

I had a Nashville Gotoh bridge before, which was also a great choice.
IMG_7122.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Raiyn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
11,482
Reaction score
9,653
Location
Satan's Armpit, (aka St. Petersburg, FL)
because the stock bushings are pot metal and steel bushings sound clearer and more lively.
I'm sure you have something more than anecdotal evidence to back this claim? "Your ears" and confirmation bias don't count as evidence. That "pot-metal" bit is straight off their front page too isn't it?

I find it quite amusing that Gibson, doesn't (that I could find) doesn't offer Faber on their Custom Shop / Murphy Lab offerings. Since the bushings are magic - surely they'd see the benefit - especially when they can charge for it.

Here's my real issue: Bushings are press fit, and sit against end grain, so anything you do to remove them •can• screw up the hole - regardless of what model it is. Having dealt with a few that have gone loose or out of round, I leave them alone whenever possible. The alleged juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Whatever new bridge you get, as long as you don't go mixing metric and standard, the studs will thread into the stock bushings. I don't care if it's Faber or Fooqing, Gotoh or Getrekked, they all fit standard bushings - which is why its a standard.

My TonePros rollers are mounted in stock bushings, they could even be on the stock studs for all it mattered. They're not, but they just as easily could be. I'm not arguing against using the studs that come with the bridge, it's just not necessary to replace the bushings. Obviously Faber is aware that it's not necessary to replace the bushings otherwise they wouldn't sell their "EZ" kits at about $120 that you screw into the existing bushings.

"But I saw on the internet that I can pull them with a <insert barnyard methodology>"

My favorite of these is the "long bolt method" * which is quite similar to the "Canadian Crunch" method shown below.
bushings-png.20995

* For such a "high-end" outfit Faber actually ships their inserts with a hardware store bolt to do the removal.

You •might• get away with it on a couple guitars, or for years, but eventually you'll find one where something goes wrong - and let me tell you, that ain't fun. No, really it sucks.

There's a better way of doing it for those instances where it's actually necessary - like a bad ground wire situation.

I don't sell tools, nor do I endorse any particular brands, but this is the puller I use.

And here's (probably) the same one sold from Canada.

There's also the StewMac version for twice as much

It's a two-in-one video. They lead with the "cheap" knob puller.

I'm sure you could save a buck or three getting them straight outta China, but that's your call.

That said, when I do use a bushing puller, I try to only use it if there's something like the aforementioned ground wire issue. In those instances, I take it real slow on the extraction and wrap the wire up the opposite side to give something else to wedge in there. I also don't go smashing them back in like a caveman.

If after all that you still want to pull your bushings for a squirrel's fart worth of difference that you'd never hear recorded much less through an amp - go ahead.
 

Mike Hickey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2022
Messages
166
Reaction score
291
But it does, at least some parts do. Your issue is the same one that has me upgrading. The bushings are IMO important because they are the bottleneck between the strings and body. They're light pot metal and the fabers are carbon steel. Just one set for the bridge made a notable difference and have a second set on the way for the tailpeice. So far with the aluminum stop bar and bridge bushing it's made a considerable difference, and no doubt if you do it all it will be huge. IMO and from many years of experience upgrading import guitars, it's always been the hardware thats been the bottleneck that separates their tone from their USA counterparts. With the epiphone theres a lot of parts there holding them back. At the very least i'd replace both the bridge ad tailpiece bushings. For $40 it's gonna be a cheap and good improvement. I would do that if i were you then if you need more try a 3 piece set of titanium saddles for the wound strings if u can find a set tat will fit.
Yeah, I guess for 40 bucks it's the first thing to try. I just got the impression from what I've read that it wouldn't be a big improvement. I'll give it a shot, a lot cheaper and easier than a pickup swap. Keep us posted, especially if you decide to get into a pickup swap. If anyone knows if the short scale has to with the mushy bottom on Epi Les Pauls. I'm used to teles and strats, so I might be expecting to much.
 
Last edited:

Equalphone

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Messages
659
Reaction score
1,153
I'm sure you have something more than anecdotal evidence to back this claim? "Your ears" and confirmation bias don't count as evidence. That "pot-metal" bit is straight off their front page too isn't it?

I find it quite amusing that Gibson, doesn't (that I could find) doesn't offer Faber on their Custom Shop / Murphy Lab offerings. Since the bushings are magic - surely they'd see the benefit - especially when they can charge for it.

Here's my real issue: Bushings are press fit, and sit against end grain, so anything you do to remove them •can• screw up the hole - regardless of what model it is. Having dealt with a few that have gone loose or out of round, I leave them alone whenever possible. The alleged juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Whatever new bridge you get, as long as you don't go mixing metric and standard, the studs will thread into the stock bushings. I don't care if it's Faber or Fooqing, Gotoh or Getrekked, they all fit standard bushings - which is why its a standard.

My TonePros rollers are mounted in stock bushings, they could even be on the stock studs for all it mattered. They're not, but they just as easily could be. I'm not arguing against using the studs that come with the bridge, it's just not necessary to replace the bushings. Obviously Faber is aware that it's not necessary to replace the bushings otherwise they wouldn't sell their "EZ" kits at about $120 that you screw into the existing bushings.

"But I saw on the internet that I can pull them with a <insert barnyard methodology>"

My favorite of these is the "long bolt method" * which is quite similar to the "Canadian Crunch" method shown below.
bushings-png.20995

* For such a "high-end" outfit Faber actually ships their inserts with a hardware store bolt to do the removal.

You •might• get away with it on a couple guitars, or for years, but eventually you'll find one where something goes wrong - and let me tell you, that ain't fun. No, really it sucks.

There's a better way of doing it for those instances where it's actually necessary - like a bad ground wire situation.

I don't sell tools, nor do I endorse any particular brands, but this is the puller I use.

And here's (probably) the same one sold from Canada.

There's also the StewMac version for twice as much

It's a two-in-one video. They lead with the "cheap" knob puller.

I'm sure you could save a buck or three getting them straight outta China, but that's your call.

That said, when I do use a bushing puller, I try to only use it if there's something like the aforementioned ground wire issue. In those instances, I take it real slow on the extraction and wrap the wire up the opposite side to give something else to wedge in there. I also don't go smashing them back in like a caveman.

If after all that you still want to pull your bushings for a squirrel's fart worth of difference that you'd never hear recorded much less through an amp - go ahead.


FWIW, you can make a puller using a bolt, some spacer washers, and a 3/8" drive socket around the 5/8" size as a standoff. No need to buy one and no advantage to a commercial one.
 


Latest posts

Top