Epi LP pickup height.

[Mike Hickey]

I recently bought my first humbucker equipt guitar, an Epi Les Paul modern. I like everything thing about except for the mushy bottom end. It's not that bad, but I'd like a little more definition from the E and A strings. Will lowering the pickups help. I've lowered them already and got rid of the boomyness, the neck pickup is still about an 8th of an inch above the mount. Any suggestions?

 

[Equalphone]

My neck pickup usually ends up about even with the ring. You can also have the bass side lower than the treble side. Don't ignore the pole pieces - you might get better tone from having the pickup a little lower and the pole pieces up a little bit. It doesn't take much before it starts to go shrill, so maybe a full turn at most.

Some people like to set the pole pieces to match the fretboard curve. So D / G are the highest, A / B lower, E / E lowest. Others like to go with a strict string output guess so the high E is up higher because it's so small, the B is a bit lower, G lower still as the largest plain string, D is up like E because it has a small core, A lower, E lower still.

But there are no rules. Play with them a bit with large changes to get a feel for how the sound changes. Then fine tune to the sound you like.

 

[Epison]

Instead of lowering them, try raising them quite high. Then lower the bass on the amp to eliminate the boominess. When you lower them the wounds strings get dull and lose that crisper percussive edge and it's hard to get that back by EQing the amp because then the plain stings get overly bright and harsh. Raising them makes the wound strings more crisp and defined. It also adds boominess but like i said, eliminate that with the amp's bass setting. Keep the plain strings side lower tho.

Also, if you have a meter remove the wire on the outer log of the volume post and measure them from outer leg to outer leg. Mine was really boomy and dull till the other day when i checked and found my volume (wired mine for one overall volume) was 429k. Put one that was 477k in and the difference was not subtle Much clearer less boomy sound. Pots like the ones in the epis usually have a 20% tolerance, so actual resistance can be as low as 400k for a pot labeled 500k. And a lot of them are a lot lower then spec which loads down the pickups and dulls them.

 

[Space1999]

Gibson’s official setup can be found on YT.

While holding the string at the highest fret the neck pu should be approx 4mm from the low E string and 3mm from the high E

For the bridge pu subtract 1mm to the above measurements.

Again holding all the strings at the highest frets, the bridge pole pieces from the low E to high E should be 2-2 1/2-3-3-2 1/2-2 mm’s from the strings.

For the neck pu just add 1mm to the above measurements.

Pat

 

[DECEMBER]

Stock pickups in import guitars are often just muddy. Even Gibson and SD passive alnico pickups are muddy to me in my LP, especially the neck pickups.
I tried several sets and wasn't satisfied until I put active ceramic EMGs in it (81X/60X). But even with these being much more clear and defined, I still had to put a VMC (variable mid control) in it to cut the muddy low-mids (the mudrange) ~250Hz.
My LP has never sounded this good.

 

[Mike Hickey]

Stock pickups in import guitars are often just muddy. Even Gibson and SD passive alnico pickups are muddy to me in my LP, especially the neck pickups.
I tried several sets and wasn't satisfied until I put active ceramic EMGs in it (81X/60X). But even with these being much more clear and defined, I still had to put a VMC (variable mid control) in it to cut the muddy low-mids (the mudrange) ~250Hz.
My LP has never sounded this good.

Yeah, I figured some of it had to do.with the design of the guitar. Probably the biggest factor is the short scale. I'm used a tight percussive bottom that I get from my teles bridge and. Ive pretty much figured out how to work around it. It does everything else so well I just play to it's strengths. It really is a great guitar.

 

[WoundUp]

My neck pickup usually ends up about even with the ring. You can also have the bass side lower than the treble side. Don't ignore the pole pieces - you might get better tone from having the pickup a little lower and the pole pieces up a little bit. It doesn't take much before it starts to go shrill, so maybe a full turn at most.

Some people like to set the pole pieces to match the fretboard curve. So D / G are the highest, A / B lower, E / E lowest. Others like to go with a strict string output guess so the high E is up higher because it's so small, the B is a bit lower, G lower still as the largest plain string, D is up like E because it has a small core, A lower, E lower still.

But there are no rules. Play with them a bit with large changes to get a feel for how the sound changes. Then fine tune to the sound you like.

I've tried adjusting the pole pieces in my Seymour Duncans as. Well as no name humbuckers and there was basically no change. I raised them a couple of turns all the way up to right below the strings and it did basically nothing.

You get actual results from adjusting the entire pickup vs nothing audible from adjusting pole pieces. I'll stick to adjusting the pickup height, personally. To me, it seems like it's psychosomatic. People go in thinking they're going to hear "better definition...etc..." so that's what people think they hear. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Confirmation bias or whatever it is.

Just like top wrapping. People go in expecting that "it'll be more slinky" so they think that's what they feel. Reality and testing suggest that top wrapping actually causes strings to need more force against them to bend to the same pitch as non top wrapped guitars. And the string has to bend further for the same pitch. So you have to bend harder and farther, the opposite of what everyone thinks they feel. That's the perfect example of confirmation bias. Nobody ever wants to test anything. They always just go with how they feel/think things work and so myths and nonsense get spread around as fact

 

[Epison]

Not sure what pickups are in the modern but in the 50s standard that i just got i get very little satisfaction with adjustment. It doesn't help much to rectify my issues with them which is mud in the neck position and lack of dynamics with all 3 positions. I know a lot of people like the probuckers but in my wildest dreams i can't imagine anyone who plays with a lot of dynamics would think they are anything more then acceptable if not mediocre. I would wager a guess most who like them play with a lot of dirt most of the time and rarey play very clean. I like both and i like to get them via volume pot riding and that doesn't work near as well with these pickups as any of my other guitars. I've tried everything and finally gave in a bought a set of mojotone 59 clones which get rave reviews as being very dynamic and completely free of muddy dull lows even on the neck pickup, and at a reasonable price. (got a deal at $216 total out the door for a covered set) I will post a review when i get them if they're worth reviewing.

 

[BGood]

Not sure what pickups are in the modern but in the 50s standard that i just got i get very little satisfaction with adjustment. It doesn't help much to rectify my issues with them which is mud in the neck position and lack of dynamics with all 3 positions. I know a lot of people like the probuckers but in my wildest dreams i can't imagine anyone who plays with a lot of dynamics would think they are anything more then acceptable if not mediocre. I would wager a guess most who like them play with a lot of dirt most of the time and rarey play very clean. I like both and i like to get them via volume pot riding and that doesn't work near as well with these pickups as any of my other guitars. I've tried everything and finally gave in a bought a set of mojotone 59 clones which get rave reviews as being very dynamic and completely free of muddy dull lows even on the neck pickup, and at a reasonable price. (got a deal at $216 total out the door for a covered set) I will post a review when i get them if they're worth reviewing.

Good luck

 

[Raiyn]

Fret the e string on the side you're working on at the last fret.
Start with 6/64" on the bass side and 4/64" on the treble.
That's 2.4 mm and 1.6 mm or thereabouts. Or 2.5 and 1.5 ± a blond one....

Adjust to taste. It's good to have a known starting point

You'll drive yourself nuts messing with pole screws - so don't.

@WoundUp

 

[GDSmithTX]

I've tried everything and finally gave in a bought a set of mojotone 59 clones which get rave reviews as being very dynamic and completely free of muddy dull lows even on the neck pickup, and at a reasonable price. (got a deal at $216 total out the door for a covered set) I will post a review when i get them if they're worth reviewing.

I have one in the neck of an ESP Fat Tele-style and it's an excellent pickup in that position.

 

[Equalphone]

I've tried adjusting the pole pieces in my Seymour Duncans as. Well as no name humbuckers and there was basically no change. I raised them a couple of turns all the way up to right below the strings and it did basically nothing.

You get actual results from adjusting the entire pickup vs nothing audible from adjusting pole pieces. I'll stick to adjusting the pickup height, personally. To me, it seems like it's psychosomatic. People go in thinking they're going to hear "better definition...etc..." so that's what people think they hear. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Confirmation bias or whatever it is.

Just like top wrapping. People go in expecting that "it'll be more slinky" so they think that's what they feel. Reality and testing suggest that top wrapping actually causes strings to need more force against them to bend to the same pitch as non top wrapped guitars. And the string has to bend further for the same pitch. So you have to bend harder and farther, the opposite of what everyone thinks they feel. That's the perfect example of confirmation bias. Nobody ever wants to test anything. They always just go with how they feel/think things work and so myths and nonsense get spread around as fact

Depends on the pickups then. I've had good results adjusting pole pieces. With my mini-humbuckers, you can hit ear piercing by raising the pole pieces too much.

 

[Space1999]

Have we considered what amp you are playing this guitar through, effect pedals etc…

Although I now have custom hand wound pu’s in my Epi’s, I never had a beef with the Pro Buckers that were in several of my guitars.

The Ceramic Pros I didn’t really like as much but were far from muddy. And the neck pu’s were the better of the pair.

Pat

 

[DHart]

I recently bought my first humbucker equipt guitar, an Epi Les Paul modern. I like everything thing about except for the mushy bottom end. It's not that bad, but I'd like a little more definition from the E and A strings. Will lowering the pickups help. I've lowered them already and got rid of the boomyness, the neck pickup is still about an 8th of an inch above the mount. Any suggestions?

Awesome guitar you got, my friend! They are so impressive and well-made. Light weight, well-balanced, locking Grover tuners, and, EBONY fretboard, too! Just stellar guitars.

I was so impressed with my Pelham Blue LP Modern that I bought another one, in Sparkling Burgundy.

I did totally different things with the pickups, though. The Pelham Blue got Cavalier Firebird pickups and a new '50s wiring harness.

The Sparkling Burgundy got a pair of Wolfetone Dr. VIntage PAF pickups, un-potted and un-covered, and a new '50s wiring harness.

Very happy with tot tone qualities I'm getting.

Yes, I added poker chips and different knobs, too.

 

[Mike Hickey]

Awesome guitar you got, my friend! They are so impressive and well-made. Light weight, well-balanced, locking Grover tuners, and, EBONY fretboard, too! Just stellar guitars.

I was so impressed with my Pelham Blue LP Modern that I bought another one, in Sparkling Burgundy.

I did totally different things with the pickups, though. The Pelham Blue got Cavalier Firebird pickups and a new '50s wiring harness.

The Sparkling Burgundy got a pair of Wolfetone Dr. VIntage PAF pickups, un-potted and un-covered, and a new '50s wiring harness.

Very happy with tot tone qualities I'm getting.

Yes, I added poker chips and different knobs, too.

Very nice. When I was shopping Epi Les Pauls the modern was an absolute no brainier. Ebony compound radius board, locking tuners, etc. So far I'm happy with my pickups, but I would like a little more definition from the bass side. From what I've read Gibsons have the same thing going on. Maybe I'm just used to the bottom end I get from my teles. I'm thinking it has to do with the scale length.

 

[Guitarman]

T

I recently bought my first humbucker equipped guitar, an Epi Les Paul modern. I like everything thing about except for the mushy bottom end. It's not that bad, but I'd like a little more definition from the E and A strings. Will lowering the pickups help. I've lowered them already and got rid of the boomyness, the neck pickup is still about an 8th of an inch above the mount. Any suggestions?

Toss those POS's and put in some Pearly Gates or something that will give you all the equalization/seamless sound you need. I have 22 Epiphones, 4 SG's and 18 LP's and some of the LTD's and special runs like my Peter Frampton, still do not have the sound I am looking for because they do not use actual USA wound pups. The Tribute's I have do and they are great, I own 12 Epiphone Elite/Elitist and they have Gibson-USA pickups/Seymour Duncan's and that makes all the difference with a mahogany body.

If, in the future when you save enough money, buy one of these off of Reverb, that will be your best source. Finding a Mint/Excellent, which all mine are, is getting tougher. But, if you are patient, you can buy one on the $1000-1600 range. Make sure it has the Elite/Elitist case. See the link below for the whole story.

Elitist Series - The Unofficial Epiphone Wiki

web.archive.org

I own one of every Les Paul, except the J J French Pink Standard, and there is one on Reverb now, but I need the price to come down. But, it is in the condition that I will buy.

 

[BGood]

... the actual USA wound pups.

Ahhh ... the exclusive magic of

 

[Raiyn]

Ahhh ... the exclusive magic of

.....marketing.

 

[Kostas Kritsilas]

T

Toss those POS's and put in some Pearly Gates or something that will give you all the equalization/seamless sound you need. I have 22 Epiphones, 4 SG's and 18 LP's and some of the LTD's and special runs like my Peter Frampton, still do not have the sound I am looking for because they do not use actual USA wound pups. The Tribute's I have do and they are great, I own 12 Epiphone Elite/Elitist and they have Gibson-USA pickups/Seymour Duncan's and that makes all the difference with a mahogany body.

If, in the future when you save enough money, buy one of these off of Reverb, that will be your best source. Finding a Mint/Excellent, which all mine are, is getting tougher. But, if you are patient, you can buy one on the $1000-1600 range. Make sure it has the Elite/Elitist case. See the link below for the whole story.

Elitist Series - The Unofficial Epiphone Wiki

web.archive.org

I own one of every Les Paul, except the J J French Pink Standard, and there is one on Reverb now, but I need the price to come down. But, it is in the condition that I will buy.

Well we all know that magnetic fields and copper work better when they originate in the US, don't we?

Before insulting somebody's pickup or guitar choice, it may be worthwhile to actually hear the guitar, and actually try to understand what they are trying to achieve in terms of tone/sound. However, it would seem that your only criterion for "good sound" is to get US made pickups, because of the aforementioned magnetic fields and copper that work better in the US.

Pearly Gates are truly great pickups; they must be because they are made in the US. In the mean time, I will just stumble along with my Bare Knuckles pickups, knowing that they are, in your words "POS", and couldn't possibly be any good because they are not made in the US.

 

[3bolt79]

Very nice. When I was shopping Epi Les Pauls the modern was an absolute no brainier. Ebony compound radius board, locking tuners, etc. So far I'm happy with my pickups, but I would like a little more definition from the bass side. From what I've read Gibsons have the same thing going on. Maybe I'm just used to the bottom end I get from my teles. I'm thinking it has to do with the scale length.

You guys that want less mush and a more defined bass response might like to try a set of Ernie Ball Cobalt strings. They really tighten up the bass and especially with high gain.