Got bit by "Want a Guitar", but need some advice.

[69Beowulf]

Just picked up my Epiphone Les Paul Special I P90 this last weekend, and I absolutely love it! It plays better and sounds better than any other guitar I've had, and I've had some costing 10 times as much.

Yeah, the hardware and electronics are entry-level, but it makes me happy.

That said, now that I have the hard-rock/blues need filled, I want to fill some other needs. I'd like a dual-humbucker guitar for shredding and modern rock, and I'd to go back to the Fender side and grab something like a Tele or the Squire '51.

So, I can get a Classic Vibe Tele or an Epiphone SG G-400 Pro at about the same prices, give or take a few bucks. I really don't care which one I get now, as they'll both likely end up on my rack before the end of the year.

That said, is the G-400 Pro that much better than the G-310? Also, I see that the G-400 includes Wilkinson Vintage tuners right now, whereas in the past they've also had Grovers or Epiphone-branded tuners (from my understanding). The last G-400 I played was a buddy's, and it had Grovers. Will there be a big difference between them?

Lastly, even though this is an Epiphone board, is the Classic Vibe worth twice the cost of a Squier '51? I really like both, and the only Fender I ever owned was a Jimmy Vaughn Strat. I expect the Squier '51 would have cheaper hardware and whatnot, but I'm trying to justify the price difference.

Thanks guys!

PS: I saw the fakest Epiphone Les Paul the other day. Wish I'd thought to take a picture. A decal of a quilted-maple top, plastic binding, and three knobs. The Les Paul signature was way off, and looked like it was painted on with model acrylics. Price? $350. No kidding. I went back later, but it was gone.

 

[ScottMarlowe]

There are several G-400 models. There's the 1966 w big pickguard and one with a small pickguard. And both of those came in Pro and non-Pro versions. The pickups in the Pro version are a little better, and have coil splitting. The 1966 Pro G-400 comes with the Wilkinson deluxe which are kluson deluxe copies. The older non-Pro 1966 came with Grover's copy of a kluson deluxe. The older G-400s came with the bigger "milk bottle" grovers, which are heavy and tend to help make neck dive worse.

I have a 1966 G-400 Pro and really like the guitar, but I bought it as a mod platform so most of the hardware has been changed out (OK ALL of the hardware). Great basic guitar for the money and you can pick them up used for $200 or so in good condition.

 

[69Beowulf]

There are several G-400 models. There's the 1966 w big pickguard and one with a small pickguard. And both of those came in Pro and non-Pro versions. The pickups in the Pro version are a little better, and have coil splitting. The 1966 Pro G-400 comes with the Wilkinson deluxe which are kluson deluxe copies. The older non-Pro 1966 came with Grover's copy of a kluson deluxe. The older G-400s came with the bigger "milk bottle" grovers, which are heavy and tend to help make neck dive worse.

I have a 1966 G-400 Pro and really like the guitar, but I bought it as a mod platform so most of the hardware has been changed out (OK ALL of the hardware). Great basic guitar for the money and you can pick them up used for $200 or so in good condition.

So a '66 G-400 Pro's tuners are good enough, or does the guitar deserve better? I love the SG shape and feel, and it's a versatile guitar, but if I'm replacing all the hardware, that changes things.

 

[ScottMarlowe]

So a '66 G-400 Pro's tuners are good enough, or does the guitar deserve better? I love the SG shape and feel, and it's a versatile guitar, but if I'm replacing all the hardware, that changes things.

I liked them enough to put them in another guitar. They're fine for what they are, 14:1 kluson style tuners. The "Toyota Camry" of tuners IMHO. Solid and reliable and unexciting.

 

[StringmanK]

FWIW... Another budget option is a used gibson special faded SG. I found one at GC in the $499 range. It's my favorite. That said, G400s are fine guitars and I wouldn't be surprised if I buy one someday.

 

[ScottMarlowe]

Yeah the Gibby faded and tribs are GREAT guitars you can get for <$500 all the time. I really like my 2013 '70s trib.

 

[MarkB]

Agreed, the SG faded feels like an SG should to me! No messing about, no fancy bling, just raw Rock'n'Roll!

 

[69Beowulf]

Only issue I'm having is the fact that the guitar is so top-heavy. Not only does it dive, but it also leans out. Love the guitar, but is there something I can do about that? Last thing I want to do is buy a guitar that makes itself hard to play.

 

[MarkB]

The 1st thing to do is get a good strap. I find that a real leather strap helps with neck dive. The only other ways of altering the weight distribution that I know of is to either add weight to the body through a bigsby or reduce weight from the headstock by changing the tuners for some lighter ones.

 

[BGood]

Another thing to consider is that SGs don't let themself be played square in front of your belly. It likes a slight sideways position, twist it a little to your hip. This will alleviate two potential problems you mentionned.

 

[69Beowulf]

Another thing to consider is that SGs don't let themself be played square in front of your belly. It likes a slight sideways position, twist it a little to your hip. This will alleviate two potential problems you mentionned.

Got it. So, big leather strap, maybe add some weight to the tail, and play it on the hip. I'll try that next time I pick one up.

 

[wildeman]

I have seen some with the strap button moved to the horn but i've never had to do it.

 

[DPaulCustom]

Neck weight varies from one to another. Maybe shop around a bit to find one with a lighter neck.
I have full size grovers on my standard, & with a 2.5in leather strap, I don't have any dive issues.
Happy hunting, I think everyone should own at least one SG.

 

[old mark]

On the Epi G400 vs the 310...the 400 is vastly better.

 

[69Beowulf]

On the Epi G400 vs the 310...the 400 is vastly better.

Cool. So, besides the tuners, what else makes them "vastly better"?

 

[BGood]

They differ quite a bit in lenght. Since the 310 has a bolted neck, it is set deeper into the body. Look at the bridge placement for instance on the photos below. So it technically doesn't make one better than the other on that factor, but the 310 is a more compact guitar, so I'd say less neck dive.

+1 for the 310 here.

G400

G310

 

[BGood]

Oh yeah ... about the Classic Vibe series. They are on par as playability goes, with Mexican and with some American Fenders. Pickups are quite nice too. I switched them on my Strat CV for Grey Bottoms, which are supposed to be the bees knees, but I came back to the originals. Really really good guitars for the price. If you have a Tele CV you like that is available, I'd say get it before the SG, since they are harder to come by. Haven't heard of a bad one yet. Then take your time to find the right SG by playing as many as you can. When you find THE one, it will tell you it wants to come home with you.

 

[69Beowulf]

Oh yeah ... about the Classic Vibe series. They are on par as playability goes, with Mexican and with some American Fenders. Pickups are quite nice too. I switched them on my Strat CV for Grey Bottoms, which are supposed to be the bees knees, but I came back to the originals. Really really good guitars for the price. If you have a Tele CV you like that is available, I'd say get it before the SG, since they are harder to come by. Haven't heard of a bad one yet. Then take your time to find the right SG by playing as many as you can. When you find THE one, it will tell you it wants to come home with you.

Yeah, my Special I P90 screamed at me to take it home. I couldn't really ignore it - especially for $99.

The Classic Vibe Tele I can get used from a friend for about $200, or I can get a new one for about twice that. I still need to pay a visit and play it, but I've liked the Telecasters I've played in the past.

As for the SG, I've always been concerned about the bolt-on neck killing sustain and affecting tone, though I've had plenty of bolt-on necks before. I'll look at the 310 to see if it feels better for me. I can always drop in some better hardware, but I'd really rather not move the strap-lock to the top horn and ruin the look of the guitar if I don't have to.

 

[BGood]

Yeah, my Special I P90 screamed at me to take it home. I couldn't really ignore it - especially for $99.

That guitar is a real sleeper. 20 years from now, people will be paying top dollars to get their hands on one. I love mine.

The Classic Vibe Tele I can get used from a friend for about $200,

Just get it, no need to play it, I'm sure you'll love it.

As for the SG, I've always been concerned about the bolt-on neck killing sustain and affecting tone, though I've had plenty of bolt-on necks before. I'll look at the 310 to see if it feels better for me. I can always drop in some better hardware, but I'd really rather not move the strap-lock to the top horn and ruin the look of the guitar if I don't have to.

Very few people have real trouble with neck dive on SGs. You get used to it, it's not like it'll dive to the floor the second you pick your nose.
As for the bolt-on neck killing sustain and affecting tone ... come on. That's like beleiving in tone wood.

 

[soulman969]

Yeah, my Special I P90 screamed at me to take it home. I couldn't really ignore it - especially for $99.

The Classic Vibe Tele I can get used from a friend for about $200, or I can get a new one for about twice that. I still need to pay a visit and play it, but I've liked the Telecasters I've played in the past.

As for the SG, I've always been concerned about the bolt-on neck killing sustain and affecting tone, though I've had plenty of bolt-on necks before. I'll look at the 310 to see if it feels better for me. I can always drop in some better hardware, but I'd really rather not move the strap-lock to the top horn and ruin the look of the guitar if I don't have to.

While I would never use the term Telecaster and shred in the same sentence if you can pick up a CV in good shape for $200 do it. They're one of the best sounding and playing Teles you'll ever find in that price range.