James Bay?

[Raiyn]

Oh no! A sustainable substitute used in a rolling change brought on by international regulations and law enforcement that outpaced the marketing department.

The horror! Good news though, you can sell yours internationally without running afoul of CITES II.

 

[Jeffytune]

Oh no! A sustainable substitute used in a rolling change brought on by international regulations and law enforcement that outpaced the marketing department.

The horror! Good news though, you can sell yours internationally without running afoul of CITES II.

 

[Cam]

Breaking News.......
On closer inspection of the so called Rosewood fretboard, I became more convinced that it wasn't.
So I contacted Epiphone and got this (shortened) reply today:

"The Epiphone division is using now basswood composite for the fingerboards of the James Bay signature"

So there we have it, sold under a false description of Rosewood. I feel duped to say the least.
Bad enough basswood, but basswood composite! Are they insane, they've just killed it's authenticity in one.

Interesting....
So on their press release for the guitar (http://www.epiphone.com/News/Features/2017/Ltd-Ed-James-Bay-Signature-Century-Outfit.aspx) they say the fingerboard is rosewood (which now we know it is not so), but for the product page, there is no mention of rosewood at all.

Have they changed the bridge as well? Cause it does seem a bit shady that they haven't (at least to my knowledge) put out a statement as to what they will do with fingerboards and stuff that were previously rosewood.

 

[yelemusic]

As long as the guitar is a over all great guitar, and it certainly is, I'm not too bothered about the choice of wood for the freboard they made.
However, selling it to the people as a guitar with a rosewood fretboard and then building it with some weird basswood composite material that nobody even heard of, that's just NOT COOL!This is not like anouncing that they are now using a different brad for tuners or their freat wire supplier has changed.
Letting the people know that actual rosewood was used for the fingerboard, and then use some weird artificial composite material changes things a lot!

It's a great guitar otherwise, but I'm tempted to return it and ask for a refund! Or at least some sort of compensation for selling us lesser wood, where we expected Rosewood! It might sound the same, nobody knows, but of course one of the reasons people buy this guitar, is the rosewood fingerboard.
Had they written basswood composite, people will reconsider!

Maybe Epiphone, if the are reading this, can clarify and make an offer on how to compensate byers for not having got the guitar they paid for!
Not real rosewood drops the value of this guitar for least 100.- Think about resale value. If people find out, that wasn't rosewood on the fingerboard they will shy away from buying one second hand, unless the price is insanely low.
It should have at least been 100.- cheaper in the first place I'd say!

 

[Peter C]

Absolutely right.
Yesterday there was a post on Epiphone's website underneath the James Bay Signature guitar stating in more detail this exact problem. Guess what, within hours Epiphone removed the post!
The post detailed that effectively it was sold and is still being sold under false pretenses. It is not an
" an exact replica of Bay's customized stage and studio guitar" as stated in their description/sales pitch.

It also pointed out that all the promotional photographs clearly show a lovely rosewood fretboard, but that they are not producing any of them with that, rather an inferior wood substitute. Even the "inspired" from last year had a Rosewood fretboard and they would have made a hell of a lot more of them than this 600 run.
The post ended with saying that for such an important part of any guitar, to change the fretboard to some crap without telling the buyer would feel like you were being ripped off, but to do that on a guitar at a premium rate with all of the sales pitch stating it as an exact replica is a con.

On this guitar, Epiphone have stated that "We do have the right to change the specifications of our guitars at any given moment, we do have such a disclaimer on our website" (if you can find it). Well check out their site, it's still states Rosewood in the detailed spec.!
http://www.epiphone.com/News/Features/2017/Ltd-Ed-James-Bay-Signature-Century-Outfit.aspx

 

[Peter C]

Looking back at an old screen shot of their original add for it, they described it as Rosewood. Obviously the word Rosewood has now been removed.

 

[Raiyn]

I get that you guys are upset.
I really have no dog in this fight, but is it possible the "delays" were caused by the rolling change? On some level, I think the Chinese may have "diverted" a shipment (remembering their rosewood furniture industry) but it's not like either side is going to say anything. Especially not on a low production run like the James Bay. (Like it or not, compared to a box stock LP or G400 the James is a drop in the Bay). They need to concentrate on feeding the guitars that affect the bottom line more directly. Sometimes that's the price of doing business in a foreign land and no amount of free-nation philosophy will change that.

I don't know that's what happened, but the convergence of the voraciously lucrative rosewood furniture industry in China and increasingly stringent CITES II regulations means that this is probably only one of the first times this will happen. Why do you think Fender switched to Pao Ferro? It's so they wouldn't have to play these games with nation-backed adversaries. It's also why I cheer the development of engineered boards like Richlite and Blackwood Tek. Like it or lump it, this is the reality we face.

If you guys weren't micro inspecting your instruments, going into it BLIND as it were. Do they honestly feel worse, or just "different"?

 

[Peter C]

[QUOTE="
If you guys weren't micro inspecting your instruments, going into it BLIND as it were. Do they honestly feel worse, or just "different"?[/QUOTE]
I don't think that being picky over the wood of a fretboard could in all seriousness be called micro inspecting, unless you are clueless over guitars, don't give a stuff about what you buy, or 12 years old.
I agree with most of your other points, though not sure about your first comments. Epiphone always have delays and if you look at the guitar James Bay receives in their video, that has the basswood composite fretboard, not rosewood so this was an early decision to ditch the rosewood promise.

 

[Cam]

[QUOTE="
...if you look at the guitar James Bay receives in their video, that has the basswood composite fretboard, not rosewood so this was an early decision to ditch the rosewood promise.

I didn't realise this, I thought his would have definitely had rosewood.

As for it not actually being rosewood, I don't mind so much that it isn't, but that they haven't honestly updated the pages for it to reflect the change.

 

[Raiyn]

I don't think that being picky over the wood of a fretboard could in all seriousness be called micro inspecting, unless you are clueless over guitars, don't give a stuff about what you buy, or 12 years old.
I agree with most of your other points, though not sure about your first comments. Epiphone always have delays and if you look at the guitar James Bay receives in their video, that has the basswood composite fretboard, not rosewood so this was an early decision to ditch the rosewood promise.

You didn't answer my question. If you had approached it BLIND, would you have noticed a difference?

As for Mr. Bay getting Basswood, you didn't see him complaining, did ya?

 

[Peter C]

To be honest Raiyn I'm not getting involved with pointless arguments as it's not you I'm bothered about, it's people who have bought it or are wanting to buy it.
Your point about Mr Bay i guess is your big slap down point, but it's just plain silly.
What difference fretboard wood choices make to a guitar's sound is an entirely different argument, but in this post it's not the point.

 

[Raiyn]

To be honest Raiyn I'm not getting involved with pointless arguments as it's not you I'm bothered about, it's people who have bought it or are wanting to buy it.
Your point about Mr Bay i guess is your big slap down point, but it's just plain silly.
What difference fretboard wood choices make to a guitar's sound is an entirely different argument, but in this post it's not the point.

Why do you refuse to answer a simple question?

 

[BlackSG91]

That James Bay guitar reminds me of Jeff Beck's guitar that he smashes on stage with the Yard Birds. Hopefully you don't do that to your guitar.




;>)/

 

[Raiyn]

That James Bay guitar reminds me of Jeff Beck's guitar that he smashes on stage with the Yard Birds. Hopefully you don't do that to your guitar.




;>)/

Considering the disappointment level...

 

[Davis Sharp]

As for Mr. Bay getting Basswood, you didn't see him complaining, did ya?

He's not entirely objective. I wonder, though, if he is concerned about the public relations problem over a guitar with his name on it.

 

[Raiyn]

He's not entirely objective. I wonder, though, if he is concerned about the public relations problem over a guitar with his name on it.

Given Gibson Corporate's recent artist relations fails...part of me wants to say he'd be in good company. Although, one should note that in the last couple years Epi has been keeping their artists happier than the "flagship" outfit.

 

[Peter C]

It's a great guitar otherwise, but I'm tempted to return it and ask for a refund!

Spoke to supplier and agreed that I can return it based on the misselling. I'd have been surprised if that had not been the case. But the dilema is as you state above, besides this flaw, it is a lovely guitar.
Also need to consider that it would be a tricky sell in the future if I eventually fell out of love with it. I'm sure this will affect it's future value. Not sure I could get away with Epiphone's sales approach ... "it's an exact replica, oh yes and the fretboards' Rosewood as you can see." Ebay buyers can be quite picky over incorrect descriptions! I know there'd always be some folks who wouldn't be bothered about things like: the type of fretboard, exact replica etc., but whether they'd be the one's interested in buying this, would be down to luck.
So if I keep it, hopefully I won't fall out of love with it.

 

[Supersonic]

Sweetwater currently has 2 in stock. They list the fretboard as rosewood. You can look at the pics of the actual guitars and see what you think...

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ETJBCHNH3

 

[Peter C]

Sweetwater currently has 2 in stock. ...... see what you think...

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ETJBCHNH3

Very good photos, sadly both are definitely not Rosewood, just the same as all the rest.
Remember Epiphone have stated they've produced all 600 with the basswood composite. The only Rosewood ones were used for the photo promotion. Even James Bay didn't get a Rosewood one, so nobody else stands a chance!
The good.......the bad and ugly

 

[Cam]

Very good photos, sadly both are definitely not Rosewood, just the same as all the rest.
Remember Epiphone have stated they've produced all 600 with the basswood composite. The only Rosewood ones were used for the photo promotion. Even James Bay didn't get a Rosewood one, so nobody else stands a chance!
The good.......the bad and ugly
View attachment 5441

Great photo for reference. I was trying to look at different photos to try and distinguish the differences in the composite and the actual rosewood.

How have people been able to tell that James Bay got a composite one? I watched the videos he did with it and I can't tell from the footage.