Les Paul Special 2020 Neck Issue

[Jeremy Newell]

First time poster. I just received a Ephiphone Les Paul Special 2020 from Musicians Friend. I love the guitar but there is hardly any relief on the next, I'm talking almost dead straight. I have the truss rod so loose that it is snug. I'm looking for advice on getting more relief or is it impossible. Should I just send it back? It's a shame because I'm really in love with the guitar.

 

[Keefoman]

Return it, and make sure Musicians Friend do a proper setup, and even fretwork if necessary, before they ship you another one.

 

[Steven Westberg]

Return it, and make sure Musicians Friend do a proper setup, and even fretwork if necessary, before they ship you another one.

Great advice!

 

[Jeremy Newell]

Damn. I will call them tomorrow. Looking at the website or looks like they expect the customer to pay shipping. That's a hard No.

 

[soulman969]

Damn. I will call them tomorrow. Looking at the website or looks like they expect the customer to pay shipping. That's a hard No.

Not on an exchange caused by a defective instrument. Only if you're returning something you don't like and want to send back. If the truss rod is faulty MF will replace the guitar and pay for the return of yours.

But I'm puzzled by a lack of relief. Many of us do a setup with very little relief and under full string tension need to tighten the truss rod. Are you certain you're loosening the truss rod not tightening it? With full tension and zero resistance from the truss rod you should have a ton of relief.

Lefty loosey, (counter clockwise) righty tighty (clockwise). Just askin'.

 

[Jeremy Newell]

Not on an exchange caused by a defective instrument. Only if you're returning something you don't like and want to send back. If the truss rod is faulty MF will replace the guitar and pay for the return of yours.

But I'm puzzled by a lack of relief. Many of us do a setup with very little relief and under full string tension need to tighten the truss rod. Are you certain you're loosening the truss rod not tightening it? With full tension and zero resistance from the truss rod you should have a ton of relief.

Lefty loosey, (counter clockwise) righty tighty (clockwise). Just askin'.

I am certain. I have it all the way to the left and can't get a .004" feeler gauge in without touching the string. I'f I go to the right at all it's even worse.

 

[soulman969]

I am certain. I have it all the way to the left and can't get a .004" feeler gauge in without touching the string. I'f I go to the right at all it's even worse.

Then by all means return it. My take on it is the neck angle was improperly set when it was built and it's nothing that can be fixed without a neck reset. MF will return in to Epiphone as defective and ship you a new one.

Contact MF and let them know about it. Then have them arrange for a return shipping authorization and pickup simultaneous to shipping you a new model. It's a warranty issue.

 

[Jeremy Newell]

Then by all means return it. My take on it is the neck angle was improperly set when it was built and it's nothing that can be fixed without a neck reset. MF will return in to Epiphone as defective and ship you a new one.

Contact MF and let them know about it. Then have them arrange for a return shipping authorization and pickup simultaneous to shipping you a new model. It's a warranty issue.

Packed up and going back today. Thanks for the advice guys.

 

[BGood]

Packed up and going back today. Thanks for the advice guys.

Better luck on the next one. They are fabulous when right.

 

[mmn]

This is a controversial subject. Why, I don't know. But in my experience (50+ years as a musician, 20 as a luthier), a properly set up guitar needs no neck relief. Now you may want some relief, but it is not needed. When a tech introduces relief he is compensating for an incorrect setup.

That said, if you loosened the truss rod under string tension and got no relief, then that is a problem and needs to be corrected.

 

[Skydog]

Record the sn to ensure they don't just hand it over to Tommy ‘Heavy Hands’ Tucker to install some relief and return it.

 

[Steven Westberg]

Then by all means return it. My take on it is the neck angle was improperly set when it was built and it's nothing that can be fixed without a neck reset. MF will return in to Epiphone as defective and ship you a new one.

Contact MF and let them know about it. Then have them arrange for a return shipping authorization and pickup simultaneous to shipping you a new model. It's a warranty issue.

ask for an RMA (returned materials authorization) number. That’s factory code for “your stuff is crap, I want an exchange, and you are paying not me.”

 

[Norton]

I’ve been making necks out of aluminum recently. Zero relief. If you get the fretwork right those strings can get LOW!

But I get it. If there’s a truss rod. It ought to work.

 

[Kostas Kritsilas]

This is a controversial subject. Why, I don't know. But in my experience (50+ years as a musician, 20 as a luthier), a properly set up guitar needs no neck relief. Now you may want some relief, but it is not needed. When a tech introduces relief he is compensating for an incorrect setup.

That said, if you loosened the truss rod under string tension and got no relief, then that is a problem and needs to be corrected.

Part of the reasoning behind neck relief is that strings do not move in a perfect vertical plane (when the guitar is in playing position). The guitar strings move up and down, and in and out as well, so if you were to trace their path of travel, you would not see a straight line, but an oval. The amount of in and out travel is very dependent on strings gauge, and the force and the way the strings are strummed. Without relief, you run the real risk of strings hitting the frets lower down on the neck when fretting and playing energetically. Neck relief should be minimal though, at .010" to .012", which is the diameter of the high E string in most electric string sets.

Even perfectly set up guitars have some neck relief. All quality guitar brands have recommendations for neck relief. So it isn't bad setups that end up mandating neck relief.

Electric guitar strings (most common gauges being .009" and .010") have a lot of in and out movement.

 

[Steven Westberg]

Part of the reasoning behind neck relief is that strings do not move in a perfect vertical plane (when the guitar is in playing position). The guitar strings move up and down, and in and out as well, so if you were to trace their path of travel, you would not see a straight line, but an oval. The amount of in and out travel is very dependent on strings gauge, and the force and the way the strings are strummed. Without relief, you run the real risk of strings hitting the frets lower down on the neck when fretting and playing energetically. Neck relief should be minimal though, at .010" to .012", which is the diameter of the high E string in most electric string sets.

Even perfectly set up guitars have some neck relief. All quality guitar brands have recommendations for neck relief. So it isn't bad setups that end up mandating neck relief.

Electric guitar strings (most common gauges being .009" and .010") have a lot of in and out movement.

Cool details. Make me smarter!!

 

[Skydog]

I’ve been making necks out of aluminum recently. Zero relief. If you get the fretwork right those strings can get LOW!

But I get it. If there’s a truss rod. It ought to work.

'Zero relief’ is irrelevant without also simultaneously considering action.

 

[Kostas Kritsilas]

Relief and action are related. However, trying to control action by manipulating string relief is not the correct thing to do. Mech relief has to do with the curve of the neck under string tension, and is related to truss rod adjustment and string tension, or more correctly, the balance between the two. Action is determined by bridge height and neck slot height, as well as neck angle.

The neck relief, while string under tension, is set with the truss rod. Then the action is set by raising/lowering the bridge height and the depth of the slots at the nut. Note that the truss rod is NOT used to adjust action (string height). If the bridge is too high or low, or the nut slots cut too shallow or deep, they cannot be corrected by adjusting the truss rod. But, the neck relief can have a (very) minor effect on string height (normally measured at the 12th fret), which is why relief is set first.

 

[Norton]

derail.

 

[Kostas Kritsilas]

Sorry about the tangents.

tp get back to the original subject, not being able to get sufficient neck relief means there are a few possibilities. First one is that the neck has a back bow built in from the factory. There are a number of reasons for this, but seeing as it is a guitar under warranty, sending it back is probably best. Another point to consider is the gauge of the strings being used. Are you using unusually light gauge strings such that the string tension cannot pull forward enough to get sufficient relief? What string gauge are you using? Also, you said "...I have the truss rod so loose that it is snug....". Does this mean that there is a double acting truss rod in use (I don't know this guitar, which is why I am asking). If so, give it an additional quarter turn towards the loose side, if possible, and see if you can get neck relief that way. Do not force the truss rod nut, if you are getting a lot of resistance, then stop. Also no more than a quarter turn at a time, checking neck relief after each quarter turn.

 

[Skydog]

Relief and action are related. However, trying to control action by manipulating string relief is not the correct thing to do. Mech relief has to do with the curve of the neck under string tension, and is related to truss rod adjustment and string tension, or more correctly, the balance between the two. Action is determined by bridge height and neck slot height, as well as neck angle.

The neck relief, while string under tension, is set with the truss rod. Then the action is set by raising/lowering the bridge height and the depth of the slots at the nut. Note that the truss rod is NOT used to adjust action (string height). If the bridge is too high or low, or the nut slots cut too shallow or deep, they cannot be corrected by adjusting the truss rod. But, the neck relief can have a (very) minor effect on string height (normally measured at the 12th fret), which is why relief is set first.

No foolin'?