Sad Casino neck crack

[Sirdoh]

(Originally posted on Accoustic Guitar Forum but they can't host photos) :-

Made in China. Damaged during a flight to Turkey. In a Hiscox case! (The case is fine BTW)
There is a crack from the treble side of the nut to roughly the middle of the neck between the 1st and 2nd fret. I could take it to a luthier, or fix it myself.
Skill level:- I built my first partscaster 45 years ago. I'm a toolmaker by trade but progressed to a Manufacturing Engineer across many materials, adhesives and techniques.

Don't hate me......
Now, what I've seen on YouTube is guys brushing in watered down PVA glue. My version of old- school would be to inject a thin epoxy or polyester resin with a long cure time to really work it in before clamping it together. (Like the stuff they use for vaccum bagged fibreglass). I know it's a little left-field, but left-field usually works for me.

Any advice?

 

[BGood]

Regular wood glue (PVA I guess) is the best, what all luthiers use. If it was mine to do, I wouldn't water it down, would be afraid to weaken bonding properties. I would force the crack open and with let the glue seep down in it and push it with an art paintbrush with stiff bristles.

 

[Charles Carter]

@Sirdoh, I'm sorry to see that happen to your Casino!
Looks like a serious break.
It seems that no matter how good the case, it's always necessary to stuff something soft and supportive behind the headstock of most Epis.
Sorry, I know it's easy to be wise after the fact.
I hope your repair works out satisfactorily.

 

[BlueSquirrel]

(Originally posted on Accoustic Guitar Forum but they can't host photos) :-

Made in China. Damaged during a flight to Turkey. In a Hiscox case! (The case is fine BTW)
There is a crack from the treble side of the nut to roughly the middle of the neck between the 1st and 2nd fret. I could take it to a luthier, or fix it myself.
Skill level:- I built my first partscaster 45 years ago. I'm a toolmaker by trade but progressed to a Manufacturing Engineer across many materials, adhesives and techniques.

Don't hate me......
Now, what I've seen on YouTube is guys brushing in watered down PVA glue. My version of old- school would be to inject a thin epoxy or polyester resin with a long cure time to really work it in before clamping it together. (Like the stuff they use for vaccum bagged fibreglass). I know it's a little left-field, but left-field usually works for me.

Any advice?View attachment 26421View attachment 26422

First of all, I'm so sorry for you!

Secondly, you may find useful advice on twoodfrd's channel on Youtube.
Mister Woodford is an extremely skilled luthier who films some of his rescues. He explains which glue to use (I know a lot of luthiers use Titebond, hide glue or fish glue, but there might be other techniques?), how to inject it in the neck, how to hold it together while it dries, etc.

Fingers crossed for you!

PS Keep us posted!

 

[BlueSquirrel]

Here is an example of an Epiphone's neck fix on twoodfrd's channel :

 

[BlueSquirrel]

And another one, just to see how he manages to repair the finish at the end:

 

[3bolt79]

I wouldn't use epoxy on that. Epoxy can expand , also it's rather difficult to clean up the squeeze out. I would use Tightbond. The trick is going to be opening it up enough to get good contact with all surfaces. Be sure not to glue the truss rod. If you can, coat the exposed portion of the rod with wax before gluing and clamping.

Was your guitar insured?

 

[Sirdoh]

Epoxy doesn't expand. I'm not talking about tubes of glue from Walmart. This the stuff they use for carbon fibre resin infusion. Racecars, powerboats, aircraft and, yes, entire carbon fibre guitars.

 

[BGood]

Your guitar, go ahead..

 

[Robb]

Keep us posted.

 

[Norton]

That break doesn’t need an epoxy repair. Good high quality epoxy is great for repairs WHEN it’s the right glue for the job. It would be a mistake to use it in your particular situation.

Thst twooford video is your best recipe for success.

 

[Sirdoh]

That break doesn’t need an epoxy repair. Good high quality epoxy is great for repairs WHEN it’s the right glue for the job. It would be a mistake to use it in your particular situation.

Thst twooford video is your best recipe for success.

Why is it wrong? What is your technical reasoning other than its not most commonly used glue?
Not trying to start a ego fest here. It just just that I've spent the best part of my career introducing better ways to do things - particularly in adhesives and coatings. Confronting inertia is always up hill, but if I'm wrong, I'm always ready to learn a technical advantage.

 

[Robb]

You don't need advice.

 

[3bolt79]

Why are you asking advice from us morons? If you've got it figured out just do it.

 

[BlueSquirrel]

Peace, my friends !

 

[BlueSquirrel]

Dan Erlewine from Stewmac uses a slightly different method which he explains in step-by-step article (link below).
He shows how he uses hot hide glue in a pipette then in a syringe in this kind of situation. He writes that, to him, epoxy or even Titebond would be too thick to penetrate deep enough into the crack.

He shows pictures and sells hide glue, pipettes and a syringe if needed.
https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-i.../why-hide-glue-is-best-for-this-cracked-neck/

Dan Erlewine and Eric Coleman from Stewmac are Americans while Ted Woodford is Canadian. All have a lot of experience in fixing broken guitars.

 

[soulman969]

Here is an example of an Epiphone's neck fix on twoodfrd's channel :

This should be idea since the crack in the neck on the video is essentially on the same neck and at the same location. Hope it all works out to your benefit Sirdoh. You seem to know what you're doing and all we're doing is trying to help as you asked for.

 

[Norton]

Sirdoh.. it's not "wrong" to use epoxy. it's just not necessary. The vids in the thread show the "best practices" way to fix your particular crack.

If you use the wood glue/syringe method and wipe down the squeeze out you won't even need finish touch up. There's almost no way to avoid that with epoxy.

high Quality Epoxy (system three etc) is a perfect solution when you've got a break with missing material etc. It's just not called for here.

Wood glue will give you an excellent joint, be stronger than it was before, and will not require extensive finish work after the break is fixed.

You might have access to adhesives and finishes that I don't know about??? I know there's a ton of cool high tech shit out there.

 

[BGood]

This, I felt needed epoxy. No dowels, it has been five years and still holding.

https://www.epiphonetalk.com/threads/sheeeet.6557/

 

[Sirdoh]

This, I felt needed epoxy. No dowels, it has been five years and still holding.

https://www.epiphonetalk.com/threads/sheeeet.6557/

Eek!. Yeah. Mines not as bad as that. It looks like you used a different type of epoxy from the one that I'm proposing. Thicker (high) viscosity) so that is doesn't run away from the joint. It will be using low viscosity so that it runs into the joint with a long pot life so that it has time to creep in.

Thanks for all the people who chipped in. Broadly: "do what we say or do what you want." - versus - "its not wrong, just over kill". Well, I have epoxy. I also have experience and confidence in it. (if done well). I don't mind over kill. "If a job's worth doing, its worth overdoing." (Nile Rodgers, Steve Tyler, Ayn Rand, Et Al)
I'll let you know.