Upcoming artist signature models?

[The Convert]

This guitar was painted, and there is a nice knot there, If you could see it, I'm all for it.
Since it's hidden, then an ethical issue arises. You have products of varying qualities priced similarly...

Generally I agree with your whole post. Mostly I agree with Phil McKnight's obvious point that you get what you pay for...that is you get what you get...nobody gets an insanely great deal on new goods.

BUT, I disagree with this point of yours that I quoted.

The visual quality of bare wood is irrelevant to an average painted guitar. (I saw a video of a guy complaining about a low-end Vox combo. He loved it when he played through it, but when he took it apart and saw the inexpensive materials, he hated it and railed on it for most of the video. This is foolish to me; he got a great sounding amp at a budget; to expect a birch cabinet would be the crazy thing. You get what you pay for.) So I think saying this is an ethical issue is going WAY too far. They selected the imperfect looking pieces to create painted guitar bodies to keep costs low. We get what we pay for.

If something is abstractly important to a person, then it is important to that person. Wood is important to you, and that's lovely. BUT, things like guitars and amps and tables and cars have purposes. An individual can like or dislike an item on a given level, but one must also accept the item's ability to fulfill its purpose as well. This is necessary to avoid a kind of fanaticism.

In general terms, I personally accept the perspective that, if the selection of wood made a significant impact to tone, it would be obvious to everyone. Since there is a debate among even famous veteran players suggests that any difference is minimal or selective at best. That being the case, I think a knot in a piece of wood for a body isn't a crime, nor have I ever encountered a suggestion that it would detract sonically from the instrument--the purpose of the instrument. I would be open to the perspective that the knot is a cosmetic issue, but since it was used for a painted body, then I don't see the problem.

I suppose the idea of ethics pushed farther is the idea of fraud. Fraud is based on breaking expectations in some degree of contract. It seems to me that Ibanez provided a solid wood body (of some number of parts) with a solid (non-translucent) painted finish. There was no promise that the wood that the body was made from was of the quality for refinishing in bare or translucent or any finish other than the one that came on it. I don't see that they did anything misleading. If you believe that other companies provide better wood, and wood is important to you, then it seems like those are your better options.

 

[Shadow Explorer]

I indeed like wood as a material. It's unpredictable and fascinating. I don't expect every piece to be perfect or e same, that's impossible.
In fact my handmade one has a small knot, but I was well aware when I bought the top. I just don't like the kinder surprise affair most companies give you.

I would take an Epi, before considering an Ibanez or fender, based on materials alone.
I just would like them to get better specs, instead of selling someone's name. That's my point.

 

[The Convert]

I just would like them to get better specs, instead of selling someone's name. That's my point.

I could not agree more.

 

[Shadow Explorer]

Btw, The wood stuff mentioned In the previous post, have nothing to do with the tone aspect of the matter.
More like the properties as building materials.
Meranti is better than Korina, Ash, Alder, Basswood.... There are other factors to be considered as well, looks and "tone".
I have a sweet spot for swamp ash, for example...

 

[The Convert]

Ignoring "looks and 'tone'" for the moment, since I think my perspective on these were complete in a previous post...

the properties as building materials.

So, if I understand you, what you are saying is that, while a good aesthetic look is desirable and you believe there are tonal qualities to the wood, the fundamental issues with the wood (for you) is essentially structural?

Meranti is better than Korina, Ash, Alder, Basswood....

So on the premise of being "better" regarding "properties as building materials", are we talking about density and weight? Ease of manufacturing? Cost? Selection uniformity? Some golden ratio of these? I expect so, since meranti seems to be defined by good strength but poor tonal qualities (if you invest in such ideas) and some comparative difficulty in finishing compared to other 'mahoganies'.

In my experience, you could look at Basswood (not loved so much by tonewood adherents either) and say, this is a very light, less dense wood, and presents challenges over time (and presumably during manufacturing) such as stripped screws, etc. BUT, as a product material, many players prefer a very light instrument or a very low cost instrument, but even still there are some rather high-end instruments constructed from it, and legendary guitarists are known to love it (Petrucci, Vai, etc.)

But if you are looking at a moderate, not too heavy hardwood that will do a good job as a structural building material, most of the woods you listed (to my thinking) are more than adequate, if not exceptional to the tonewood crowd. They (alder, ash, etc.) are strong, hold hardware for decades without problems (especially on a solid-body build), and aren't especially expensive (to the manufacturer).

Maybe I don't understand your point, but again it seems that the fact that guitars have been made for decades with many of those woods (or similar species), and all of which are represented in circulation today. I don't see that it's a big deal. But of course, as I said before, we all enjoy our area of focus, regardless of why.

Sure, would I prefer the kind of old-growth woods that the early guitars were made from, and then have the benefit of 60 years of drying? Of course. Would I consider it worth spending money to get that if there isn't a discernible benefit (to me) when compared to adequate modern woods? Not much more at all. But it's fine we all have different interests and values.

I know I wrote a lot (again), and this can sometimes come off as being combative or trying to bury someone, but honestly I'm just working through understanding your ideas. Thanks friend.

 

[The Convert]

I just looked at the subject line. We may have hijacked this accidentally. Probably a good idea to wrap this sub-topic up or move it elsewhere. Thoughts?

 

[Shadow Explorer]

Natural longevity is one of my concerns. Then overall properties.
I do have a soft spot for beautiful pieces though...


Truth is they are all good enough to make a guitar body out of.
Some are softer and never (or rarely) used for necks.
Some are better than others. Ebony, Teak, wenge etc are very durable.

Mahoganies and mahogany like woods, they are excellent all rounders.
In my mind an epi stanard lp is (or has the potential to be) better than an alder cs fender for example.
I would rather have that epi...

And once again Epi could raise the price for actually making a better guitar, they have the ingredients to do it. Selling a name is more profitable though....

 

[The Convert]

I do have a soft spot for beautiful pieces though...

I absolutely do too. It's weird to live in a world where printed "veneers" can provide an artificially pretty top. But a true Maple flame top with a nice finish will always get me.

I love instruments that tend to be made from (whatever kind of) mahogany, though I've never been blown away by the beauty of the grain of that wood. Swamp ash is pretty, as are others.

Sadly, much of this is locked by tradition. I will never expect to see a mahogany Telecaster from Fender, nor and Alder SG from Gibson. Not that I'd necessarily want those combinations--just to say that they're going to keep trying to make what they've always made.

Good chat.

 

[Shadow Explorer]

I love swamp ash grain. I found a much better alternative to it, sweet chestnut. My next guitar will be made out of both!!!

Back to the Epi sigs, a good Example is regular korina V, against the Bonamassa one.
The second one is better made, why not have a regular model made like that, with no name attached?

 

[DaveInSoCal]

I'm just not into signature models, but to be honest I do own a Brent Hinds V but I took the truss rod cover with his name off the guitar and replaced it with a blank one.
I bought it not because its a Brent Hinds model, but because it is a Kick Ass V.

As for the Lizzy Hale model, I already have a Goth Explorer that plays as good as my Gibson. I swapped out the pickups for Gibson Dirty Fingers + and this is really a killer guitar now!
The LH model is cool because I do like binding and the fretboard inlays, but personally I don't care for the gold at all.
Anyway, I already have a great Epi Explorer that ticks all the boxes for me so the Sig isn't something I would be interested in.
Gibson did the same model a couple years ago but it was pricey, if I would have gotten it I still would have removed all of the gold parts and blacked it out.

 

[Shadow Explorer]

Me likes gothic series. I will get one at some pont.

 

[The Convert]

I bought it not because its a Brent Hinds model, but because it is a Kick Ass V.

This is exactly the reason I bought my Bonamassa Epi LP. I could care less about him, but a pelham blue Epi LP with Burstbuckers? Yes, please!

 

[DaveInSoCal]

Me likes gothic series. I will get one at some pont.

I love mine, surprisingly good for the price. Gibson has a 2019 Explorer Tribute which is identical except it has dot inlays.
The price is $1399 US, I paid $499 for my Epi, I suppose the Gibson is "better" but playing hard rock / metal I doubt there is any measurable difference.

 

[Mongol McPhee]

The real question is how "exact" do you want it?
If color wasn't a concern, and special routing isn't involved (Faulkner V), you could create a functionally similar (if not identical / better) axe through modding and come out ahead -doing your own work and having decent Shop-Fu skills.

Having said that, sigs ARE about the person doing the scribbling.
I'd LOVE a Lzzy Hale Explorer, I'm a Halestorm fan.

The Brent Hinds V is essentially how I'd build a V for myself -minus a couple "me" things.

I drooled over the Brendon Small Thunderhorse and Snow Falcon because again - fan.

Could you do it? Yeah, you probably could get close, but would you truly be better off aping the tone of _______ or modding to find your own?

Fair point BUT the way I was looking at it was.....the company need to make profit and so they don’t want to radically alter production methods/materials in general to produce a signature issue that will be aimed at a fairly small audience. Hence I would assume for every signature guitar it must have a base plate alternative from which it is derived that is very close to the signature issue save for minor changes and bling e.g how different is the standard Explorer and the Lzzy Hales Explorer (at the core)?

 

[Shadow Explorer]

I like the Roman number inlay in epis!

 

[Mongol McPhee]

I like the Roman number inlay in epis!

I’ve only seen it once? The Gothic explorer maybe?? It is cool though!!

 

[Shadow Explorer]

The XII (12) on the 12th fret. I would get a LP btw.

 

[Raiyn]

I do own a Brent Hinds V but I took the truss rod cover with his name off the guitar and replaced it with a blank one.

Yeah, we had talked about it at the time. I still say it's damn close to how I'd have built a V for myself. Lace pickups and all.

Fair point BUT the way I was looking at it was.....the company need to make profit and so they don’t want to radically alter production methods/materials in general to produce a signature issue that will be aimed at a fairly small audience.

A reasonable assessment.

Hence I would assume for every signature guitar it must have a base plate alternative from which it is derived that is very close to the signature issue save for minor changes and bling e.g how different is the standard Explorer and the Lzzy Hales Explorer (at the core)?

Let's compare then:
Lzzy


The current "basic" Explorer sold as new currently is the "Goth" model.

Basically the same axe minus the "bling", case and COA.
I've been sorely tempted to build a "Dark" out of a Goth with Gibby '57 / 57+ pickups (what her Gibby model came with) and just add the gold hardware myself. -This conversation ain't helping that struggle.
Even paying retail for good stuff I could make or beat the Sig price. Difference between a true signature and a "tribute" I guess.

 

[Supersonic]

I don't know who this is or what this is (besides a V), but I saw it on the Book of Faces.