What is a "Great Guitar"...???

[Equalphone]

Gibson doesn't use the Plek system like it should be used,
they do it to cover their (not so good) work

My preferred guitar brand don't use Plek, they say a well crafted guitar doesn't need a Plek

I'm curious about how you think they could be doing it incorrectly. What do you think they do that 's wrong? I don't see a lot of room for error with Plek.

Seems to me that the very technology of Plek avoids its incorrect use: They set the guitar in the jig and turn on the Plek. The machine is already pre-programmed with profiles for the various guitars they sell. The Plek puts the neck under tension to the programmed relief, measures the frets, and levels each one dynamically a minimal amount to achieve nearly perfect level.

I just can't see what they could do wrong other than put it in the jig incorrectly. I also can't see how they'd end up with uneven frets. It's improbable in a Plek.

I can see that weather changes could make changes in setup afterwards. I guess it's possible the automated fret press isn't setting things and firmly as it should be. But neither is a Plek issue.

Tell me your thoughts on this.

 

[Raiyn]

I think where he's going is that instead of it being the cherry-on-top fine tuning of a fret job it's being used to "fix" a half-assed job done by a lower skill worker. Rather than properly pay someone with experience they're sticking it in the machine.

Correct me if I'm wrong @Paruwi

 

[Raiyn]

Bowling is a sport of skill and finesse.

Edgelords don't bowl.

 

[The Convert]

I like Phil McKnight’s perspective on Pleking—(to paraphrase): it’ll never be as good as the work of a good tech on a good day, but they will consistently give you results that are fine but not exceptional. I think it’s a kind of embarrassment that there’s a suggestion that premium instruments that cost thousands of dollars would benefit from a Plek job.

As for what makes a truly great guitar, for me it’s when I don’t think about it at all. I love gear, but a really great guitar for me is transparent between conceiving of music and making it. I suppose that’s my answer sometimes. It’s also true that the right combination of gear right now for what I want, and then getting a surprise that makes it even better—that’s probably a great guitar too. I have Epis and Squiers and I have US Fenders, Gibsons, and PRSs. Some are more expensive. It’s hard to say that any are better, except in conventional ways. (Tonewoods, pot metal, etc…)

 

[LP_SPC_1_P90]

A guitar that is built properly as the sum of it's parts, then properly set up to be as playable as possible. There are so many steps in the process of making a guitar to get it right for locating frets & bridge, locating and slotting the nut slots, soldering the electronics & if it's not set up properly, it's never going to play as good as it could or should.

 

[AJ Richetti]

No and No

the truth could be somewhere in the mid....
Have you ever looked into MiJ guitars ?

Absolutely Not my Epiphone Les Paul cost me $1,400 with probuckers there isn't a Gibson that can touch it..

 

[Equalphone]

I think where he's going is that instead of it being the cherry-on-top fine tuning of a fret job it's being used to "fix" a half-assed job done by a lower skill worker. Rather than properly pay someone with experience they're sticking it in the machine.

Correct me if I'm wrong @Paruwi

I don't think Gibson's quality control is anywhere near perfect. I just don't see things in the fret process that leave room for error that the Plek would correct. In fact, much of what the factory does is automated and not prone to error.

The fret press is a computer controlled device, there's no more hammering of frets. AFAIR, fretboards are done by machine, so they are flat.

Necks still have final tenon carving done by hand and the angle set by the craftsman. So there's room for error there. But a Plek isn't going to be able to do much to correct for a bad neck angle - there's just not that much room for adjustment. It's going to toss that guitar as out of spec before grinding anything.

My point is that I just don't see what a Plek could be correcting for in terms of "half-ass" operations.

 

[Equalphone]

I like Phil McKnight’s perspective on Pleking—(to paraphrase): it’ll never be as good as the work of a good tech on a good day, but they will consistently give you results that are fine but not exceptional. I think it’s a kind of embarrassment that there’s a suggestion that premium instruments that cost thousands of dollars would benefit from a Plek job.

As for what makes a truly great guitar, for me it’s when I don’t think about it at all. I love gear, but a really great guitar for me is transparent between conceiving of music and making it. I suppose that’s my answer sometimes. It’s also true that the right combination of gear right now for what I want, and then getting a surprise that makes it even better—that’s probably a great guitar too. I have Epis and Squiers and I have US Fenders, Gibsons, and PRSs. Some are more expensive. It’s hard to say that any are better, except in conventional ways. (Tonewoods, pot metal, etc…)

I think Mr. McKnight is incorrect.

There are a few., highly skilled luthiers who have the ability to properly level a neck under tension and produce results equal to a Plek. But the great majority of "techs" aren't going to come anywhere near the precision of a Plek leveled neck or conserve fret material in the same way.

A good luthier can get a neck within .025mm / .001". A thousandth of an inch. It's not possible to get much closer or even measure smaller than .001" with the tools luthiers have. You might measure +/- .0005" with some upper level instruments. But leveling to that precision is unlikely.

A Plek, OTOH, levels to .001 mm or .00004". It does it under tension - again, something most luthiers don't do, only the best. The Plek is always exceptional, subject to an operator who knows how to use the machine.

 

[The Convert]

I think Mr. McKnight is incorrect.

There are a few., highly skilled luthiers who have the ability to properly level a neck under tension and produce results equal to a Plek. But the great majority of "techs" aren't going to come anywhere near the precision of a Plek leveled neck or conserve fret material in the same way.

A good luthier can get a neck within .025mm / .001". A thousandth of an inch. It's not possible to get much closer or even measure smaller than .001" with the tools luthiers have. You might measure +/- .0005" with some upper level instruments. But leveling to that precision is unlikely.

A Plek, OTOH, levels to .001 mm or .00004". It does it under tension - again, something most luthiers don't do, only the best. The Plek is always exceptional, subject to an operator who knows how to use the machine.

A few can properly level a neck? That begs the question: how were there excellent guitars set up well for decades (and centuries) before. Further, if we accept your claims of accuracy, then it clearly suggests that the increased level of accuracy is irrelevant. The tolerances you cited are surely undetectable by humans (surely so if luthier tools aren’t so accurate to even measure them).

I will say the pleked guitars I’ve owned (one from manufacturer and one after market) were fine, but I’d not pay for it again when I’m just as good and my buddy at my local Sam Ash can do better.

As for your opinion, that’s cool. Personally, I will value the perspective of one of the Southwests best techs, who has a high end guitar company, hand makes boutique pickups, sold guitars in his own store for over a decade, has professional relationships with Paul Reed Smith, Kiesel, and many other giants, because they hire him to consult on their projects, and has been in every major guitar factory. You know, versus some dude on the web. Sorry. Just how I see it.

 

[Paruwi]

Absolutely Not my Epiphone Les Paul cost me $1,400 with probuckers there isn't a Gibson that can touch it..

each one of these (MiJ FGNs) cost me less than $1400....
and even double priced Gibbos can't touch them

 

[Raiyn]

@The Convert Welcome back.

 

[JamesStrawberry]

honestly, I use an Epiphone G-400 and I'd consider it a great guitar. Replaced the pickups and made it how I'd like my SG to look and I love it. Though it doesn't sound nearly as good in the Marshalls, in my Fender Mustang IV amp it sounds amazing. The amp really changes a guitar, and my G-400 and Mustang IV make an amazing combo.

You don't need a $1000+ guitar to have an amazing guitar. Though at this point I think I've thrown over $1000 into this guitar, not gonna lie to ya.
And the amp was $500, so yeah.

I've spent a lot.
For one guitar.
ONE.

 

[BuddyHollywood]

Also its one that lets you be dynamic. If you play it lightly it gives off a nice clean tone but when you goose it, you get all the crunch and sustain you want.
In MY mind, thats what makes a great guitar or ANY instrument, really.

My Casino does this for me the most out of any of my guitars.

 

[BuddyHollywood]

As for what makes a truly great guitar, for me it’s when I don’t think about it at all. I love gear, but a really great guitar for me is transparent between conceiving of music and making it.

Yes this too.

 

[AJ Richetti]

each one of these (MiJ FGNs) cost me less than $1400....
and even double priced Gibbos can't touch them

My Epiphone was made in the Epiphone Quindoe facility that's completely American owned and operated Scott Lewis is the facility manager along with American and Asian luthiers..it's also a state of the Art facility..I rather have the Quindoe facility epiphones because Americans are involved making them..

 

[Raiyn]

The Japanese make excellent guitars - particularly FGN