Anybody owns a SG from both, Epiphone and Gibson?

[Ocean1]

Today I stopped by my local guitar shop to check some guitars. I saw a SG from Gibson side by side with an Epiphone. Same color too. They looked basically identical apart from the headstock. Mainly, I was surprised that I couldn't say the Gibson was visibly better built. This just wasn't obvious at all.

I have not looked at new Gibsons for a while as I much prefer buying used and older guitars. The Gibson was also very shiny. Are they using poly on Gibson SGs now? All together it just didn't feel worth it at all paying the huge price difference for a headstock. Since the pickups and electronics are easily changed on solid bodies.

Both of them passed and failed my main finishing and QC tests when I look at guitars. I always check the body bidding where it meets the neck for color bleeding etc and the fretboard for glue. Neither had that, which is good. But both failed the neck meets body test. Often cheap guitars mess up there and the finish is not smooth. They are hidden by the neck pickup but if you look closely you can see it. I have seen this fail even in product photos online, which are sharp enough to zoom in. The Gibson looked as bad as the Epi there. Both failed in my eyes. My friend's 700 bucks Ibanez looks impeccable there in comparison.

So based on this example I saw, brand new, I would not spend the money on the Gibson SG. If you had told me they were made in the same factory, from a finish and QC point of view, I would have believed. Anybody here owns both and can comment?

 

[Norton]

I have an Epiphone SG and a couple that are Gibson.

The quality of the epiphone guitars has always been good. But it's really jumped up since the Juskowiscz era ended.

Biggest differences now are materials. Rosewood vs. Laurel fingerboards and Epiphone uses a lot of 5 to 7 piece bodies and veneers .

Not that big of a deal... but those veneers look pretty awkward at the bevels on a transparent finish.

Bottom line... the Epiphone line are totally capable musical tools.

Personally I haven't seen any QC issues with any Gibsons.

both are great.

If they put the same deep carves and bevels on the epiphone SG's as the Gibsons I'd buy one.

 

[imnotcreative]

I own both, my Epi SG is from 2002 so i can't really compare it to the current production models.

Which models were they? There is a difference between the ''modern '' standard and the ''61 standard''

Gibson still exclusively uses nitro on all their guitars. The bleeding onto the binding you mention i've only seen on Gibson custom shop reissue models due to the red analine dye they use. Bad scraping of the binding, yes, that is still a thing

I'm not sure what you mean with the neck meets body test. The way the finish might have build up in the tight corners where neck meets the body and it not being as smooth as it could be? A little bit.. I've seen some factory tour video's and seeing they use fairly big polishing wheels i wouldn't expect them to smooth out the tightest corners.

Aside from the totally different electronics and feel of the finish the biggest difference between my Epi and Gibson SG's is the shape of the neck. The Epi has a slim rounded neck profile and the Gibson SG std 61 feels thin, wide and flat in the back. My Gibson SG tribute has a medium rounded neck (my preferred neck)

Again, my Epi is from 2002 and probably not comparable to todays production models.

 

[Equalphone]

Rosewood, African mahogany, One or two piece bodies. One piece necks, CTS / Switchcraft electronics. American wound pick ups. Aluminum Bridges and stop pieces.

There’s a lot more hand work on Gibsons. Whether that results in a better guitar is arguable. Nitro application is a multiplayer process. Many Epiphone’s finishes are a one shot tinted urethane. Those things all add up to labor hours.

Gibson uses PLEK. I’ve yet to find an Epiphone where the factory frets were at a tolerance of .001 variance, which is what I prefer for a low action. PLEK will get you there out of the factory.

Everything above adds up to additional cost.

Some of the above features you can now get in an Epiphone. But they’ve raised the prices of the upper Epis to at or above what the low level Gibsons were just a couple years ago, with GIbsons going even higher. Worth it? I dunno. I've played a current $2000 GIbson and a $900 Epi side by side and the differences didn't jump out at me.

I will say that my two piece solid body, one piece long tenon neck, Korean Epi SG seems to have a certain something that most Epi SG's lack. Those features usually require you to purchase a Gibson SG. But I haven't lived with any of the newer $1000 Epis with comparable features long term to compare and say that it's those specfic features that put it over the top. I also haven't lived with a current Gibson long term to say they hit the same mark with the modern version of those features. I had a Epi Modern for a number of months and aside from some a-typical quality issues, it was a solid machine. I don't know that the Gibson would have anything over that.

Body curves and necks on both have varied over the years. If you like it, it’s good. I like my Korean Epi SG and the carves and bevels are all wrong for the purist, but it's a very comfortable guitar to play.

I think it just comes down to what feels good to you and your wallet and your brain when you pick it up to play.

 

[Ocean1]

Rosewood, African mahogany, One or two piece bodies. One piece necks, CTS / Switchcraft electronics. American wound pick ups. Aluminum Bridges and stop pieces.

There’s a lot more hand work on Gibsons. Whether that results in a better guitar is arguable. Nitro application is a multiplayer process. Many Epiphone’s finishes are a one shot tinted urethane. Those things all add up to labor hours.

Gibson uses PLEK. I’ve yet to find an Epiphone where the factory frets were at a tolerance of .001 variance, which is what I prefer for a low action. PLEK will get you there out of the factory.

Everything above adds up to additional cost.

Some of the above features you can now get in an Epiphone. But they’ve raised the prices of the upper Epis to at or above what the low level Gibsons were just a couple years ago, with GIbsons going even higher. Worth it? I dunno. I've played a current $2000 GIbson and a $900 Epi side by side and the differences didn't jump out at me.

I will say that my two piece solid body, one piece long tenon neck, Korean Epi SG seems to have a certain something that most Epi SG's lack. Those features usually require you to purchase a Gibson SG. But I haven't lived with any of the newer $1000 Epis with comparable features long term to compare and say that it's those specfic features that put it over the top. I also haven't lived with a current Gibson long term to say they hit the same mark with the modern version of those features. I had a Epi Modern for a number of months and aside from some a-typical quality issues, it was a solid machine. I don't know that the Gibson would have anything over that.

Body curves and necks on both have varied over the years. If you like it, it’s good. I like my Korean Epi SG and the carves and bevels are all wrong for the purist, but it's a very comfortable guitar to play.

I think it just comes down to what feels good to you and your wallet and your brain when you pick it up to play.

So do you mean SG Gibsons are always one piece necks and one piece bodies? Because I had thought I had seen Gibsons with multi piece bodies.

Is there a consensus on how PLEK compares on nickel silver? What is your opinion on nickel silver vs the other stuff normally used?

But overall, looking at all the specs like this, makes it a little easier to swallow the price than just holding both on your hands and comparing the looks and feel alone.

 

[Ocean1]

I own both, my Epi SG is from 2002 so i can't really compare it to the current production models.

Which models were they? There is a difference between the ''modern '' standard and the ''61 standard''

Gibson still exclusively uses nitro on all their guitars. The bleeding onto the binding you mention i've only seen on Gibson custom shop reissue models due to the red analine dye they use. Bad scraping of the binding, yes, that is still a thing

I'm not sure what you mean with the neck meets body test. The way the finish might have build up in the tight corners where neck meets the body and it not being as smooth as it could be? A little bit.. I've seen some factory tour video's and seeing they use fairly big polishing wheels i wouldn't expect them to smooth out the tightest corners.

Aside from the totally different electronics and feel of the finish the biggest difference between my Epi and Gibson SG's is the shape of the neck. The Epi has a slim rounded neck profile and the Gibson SG std 61 feels thin, wide and flat in the back. My Gibson SG tribute has a medium rounded neck (my preferred neck)

Again, my Epi is from 2002 and probably not comparable to todays production models.

I'm not sure for the Epi but the Gibson was a 61 std I think. At least it had 61 in the name. Both were that red-ish/brown-ish transparent finish. With covered pickups. I think only the SG Faded has uncovered pickups?

The necks felt similar on both. As far as finish. Profile was a little different but not night and day. But I didn't spend time playing them.

This is an example of the neck meets the body test. The top one passes the test, at least in this photo. The bottom one has very visible finishing problems. The scary thing is both of these images were taken from the manufacturer's official photos:



This is an extreme example. But once you see it you can't unsee it on most guitars. You will be surprised how bad this area looks in many guitars. Not as bad as above but just not smooth or properly finished IMO. I can forgive that on an Epi. But on a Gibson it's more difficult and the one I saw today just wasn't "perfect" on that area. It had flaws and or blemishes on the finish.

 

[Ocean1]

I have an Epiphone SG and a couple that are Gibson.

The quality of the epiphone guitars has always been good. But it's really jumped up since the Juskowiscz era ended.

Biggest differences now are materials. Rosewood vs. Laurel fingerboards and Epiphone uses a lot of 5 to 7 piece bodies and veneers .

Not that big of a deal... but those veneers look pretty awkward at the bevels on a transparent finish.

Bottom line... the Epiphone line are totally capable musical tools.

Personally I haven't seen any QC issues with any Gibsons.

both are great.

If they put the same deep carves and bevels on the epiphone SG's as the Gibsons I'd buy one.

Indeed. Epi's quality has come a long way. That is a good thing.

 

[3bolt79]

I have a 2020, and 2023 Gibson SG and a 2023 Epiphone Tony Iommi Monkey SG.

The 2023 Gibson had to be exchanged. The first one had crazy low frets., somebody went crazy with the Plek.

I love all three. No issues on any.

 

[BGood]

I have an Epiphone SG and a couple that are Gibson.

The quality of the epiphone guitars has always been good. But it's really jumped up since the Juskowiscz era ended.

Biggest differences now are materials. Rosewood vs. Laurel fingerboards and Epiphone uses a lot of 5 to 7 piece bodies and veneers .

Not that big of a deal... but those veneers look pretty awkward at the bevels on a transparent finish.

Bottom line... the Epiphone line are totally capable musical tools.

Personally I haven't seen any QC issues with any Gibsons.

both are great.

If they put the same deep carves and bevels on the epiphone SG's as the Gibsons I'd buy one.

Gibson 61 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2004 Epiphone G400 Vintage


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And / or



I've had 2 Gibson SGs in the past year and own a 2004 Epiphone SG Vintage that is not going anywhere. As nice as the Gibson were, they didn't make me want to get rid of my Epi. Every time I go in a store that carries 61s, I make it a point to try some and here again, never convinced me to get one over my Epi.

 

[otisblove]

I’ve owned an Epiphone G-400, a Gibson SG Standard and I currently own an Epiphone 1961 Les Paul SG.
I’ve played many other Epiphone and Gibson SG’s.
Most recently I test drove Standards by both. The Gibson was a bit nicer, but not $1400 nicer. I’d have been happy with the Epiphone, but I liked the pickups, electronics and hard case that came with the Les Paul SG, so I went for the middle option.

 

[WoundUp]

Gibson USA has and always will be nitro finished. You can count on that.

They have never used polyurethane OR polyester on USA built guitars. Fender has, though, and currently still does finish their American guitars in polyurethane and polyester finishes.

Off-topic but...

IMO, people really should get out of the habit of saying "poly" because theres not just one finish that starts with "poly-". Not that it matters in this instance but it does in 99% of every other instance where someone refers to any non-nitro finish as "poly", thinking they're all one and the same.


For guitars, manufacturers like Fender and others use Polyurethane AND Polyester to finish their guitars. Since they are not the same thing, it's helpful to everyone if you identify what you're actually talking about instead of lumping it all together.

 

[BGood]

Gibson USA has and always will be nitro finished. You can count on that.

They have never used polyurethane OR polyester on USA built guitars. Fender has, though, and currently still does finish their American guitars in polyurethane and polyester finishes.

Off-topic but...

IMO, people really should get out of the habit of saying "poly" because theres not just one finish that starts with "poly-". Not that it matters in this instance but it does in 99% of every other instance where someone refers to any non-nitro finish as "poly", thinking they're all one and the same.


For guitars, manufacturers like Fender and others use Polyurethane AND Polyester to finish their guitars. Since they are not the same thing, it's helpful to everyone if you identify what you're actually talking about instead of lumping it all together.

Polyur and polyes then

 

[BGood]

I’ve owned an Epiphone G-400, a Gibson SG Standard and I currently own an Epiphone 1961 Les Paul SG.
I’ve played many other Epiphone and Gibson SG’s.
Most recently I test drove Standards by both. The Gibson was a bit nicer, but not $1400 nicer. I’d have been happy with the Epiphone, but I liked the pickups, electronics and hard case that came with the Les Paul SG, so I went for the middle option.

I'd be very curious to try that 1961 Les Paul SG. Looks great. What's the neck profile on it ?

 

[Equalphone]

So do you mean SG Gibsons are always one piece necks and one piece bodies? Because I had thought I had seen Gibsons with multi piece bodies.

Is there a consensus on how PLEK compares on nickel silver? What is your opinion on nickel silver vs the other stuff normally used?

But overall, looking at all the specs like this, makes it a little easier to swallow the price than just holding both on your hands and comparing the looks and feel alone.

Gibson SG's are one piece or two. They have one piece necks vs. the usual Epi neck with a scarf joint and and heel bump. I believe the $900+ Epi's all have a one piece neck but I'm not 100% sure. Epis is also using two piece bodies on some guitars now vs. multi-piece with veneer.

Nickel-Silver, which is actually a blend of copper, zinc, and nickel, is the standard fret wire that's been in use for decades. The mix can vary and some may be harder than others. I don't know of published hardness specs for Epi vs. Gibson or any non-subjective real-world testing. But, that's where PLEK started. PLEK is well suited.

Stainless frets are great if you can get them but they're not an Epi or Gibson thing.

FYI - Gibson tends to provide deluxe gig bags (heavily padded, they're actually nice) for the common models. Higher level guitars might come with a hard case. Epi doesn't typically give you a bag or case but a few of the upscale models come with them.

 

[Ocean1]

I’ve owned an Epiphone G-400, a Gibson SG Standard and I currently own an Epiphone 1961 Les Paul SG.
I’ve played many other Epiphone and Gibson SG’s.
Most recently I test drove Standards by both. The Gibson was a bit nicer, but not $1400 nicer. I’d have been happy with the Epiphone, but I liked the pickups, electronics and hard case that came with the Les Paul SG, so I went for the middle option.

I definitely agree it's not 1400 nicer. Might even sound much nicer or be nicer to play. But from touching and finishing, I couldn't say so. I guess I was just expecting the Gibson to be that much nicer.

 

[Ocean1]

IMO, people really should get out of the habit of saying "poly" because theres not just one finish that starts with "poly-". Not that it matters in this instance but it does in 99% of every other instance where someone refers to any non-nitro finish as "poly", thinking they're all one and the same.


For guitars, manufacturers like Fender and others use Polyurethane AND Polyester to finish their guitars. Since they are not the same thing, it's helpful to everyone if you identify what you're actually talking about instead of lumping it all together.

But they are both "bad" right? At least in this context. What is the Epi ES175 Premium finished with again? I know it's not poly but also it's not nitro.

 

[Ocean1]

Gibson 61 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2004 Epiphone G400 Vintage

View attachment 25214
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And / or



I've had 2 Gibson SGs in the past year and own a 2004 Epiphone SG Vintage that is not going anywhere. As nice as the Gibson were, they didn't make me want to get rid of my Epi. Every time I go in a store that carries 61s, I make it a point to try some and here again, never convinced me to get one over my Epi.

View attachment 25216

Nice!

 

[Ocean1]

Gibson SG's are one piece or two. They have one piece necks vs. the usual Epi neck with a scarf joint and and heel bump. I believe the $900+ Epi's all have a one piece neck but I'm not 100% sure. Epis is also using two piece bodies on some guitars now vs. multi-piece with veneer.

Nickel-Silver, which is actually a blend of copper, zinc, and nickel, is the standard fret wire that's been in use for decades. The mix can vary and some may be harder than others. I don't know of published hardness specs for Epi vs. Gibson or any non-subjective real-world testing. But, that's where PLEK started. PLEK is well suited.

Stainless frets are great if you can get them but they're not an Epi or Gibson thing.

FYI - Gibson tends to provide deluxe gig bags (heavily padded, they're actually nice) for the common models. Higher level guitars might come with a hard case. Epi doesn't typically give you a bag or case but a few of the upscale models come with them.

Interesting. But I just saw a video review on a Gibson SG which was a 4 piece body. The SG faded. I know the fade was the bottom of the line. But did they cut a lot of corners to keep it cheap?

I thought the cheaper guitar brands used something worse than nickel silver for frets and that Gibson was probably using stainless. Interesting to know they use the "same" as Epi.

 

[otisblove]

I'd be very curious to try that 1961 Les Paul SG. Looks great. What's the neck profile on it ?

“Slim tapered C.”
I’ve got more than a few guitars right now. They have all kinds of neck profiles and fretboard radii. The only one that jumps out at me as different is my Telecaster with an Allparts fat neck. That thing feels massive.

The SG just feels like a guitar neck. It has a 12” fretboard radius.

 

[Norton]

yeah... the 61 reissue is pretty damn close to perfect.

The worn Specials p90's are fantastic too!