Beginner guitar gear advice needed

[0Z102]

Hey guys thinking about getting my first guitar. I've limited my search down to 2 choices.

I'm hesitant between 2 guitars with the exact same starting price point. 1 is the epiphone sg special with a killswitch on the tone knob. The other guitar is the sg special vintage edition both look the same and have the same specs (same dimensions and same brand name for humbuckers not sure if the technology n them is different though) except for the body material the special is made out of mahogany while the special ve is made out of poplar. I dig the finish of the normal sg special a tad bit more than the ve but I'm just wondering if there r any drawbacks to the sg special model? As far as I understand rn both r the exact same spec-wise (mahogany on the special which i think is a plus compared to the poplar on the ve as I heard it assists with the sustain depth and quality of sound due to its density which helps the vibrations get transmitted n an easier manner). The sg special also has an extra killswitch and it comes with D'addario strings 10-46 nickel.

On a side note for anyone confused about how to differentiate between both models personally I find the normal sg special with the golden "special sg model" branding printed on the head while on the ve there is no "special sg model" branding. The screws r also black on the ve while normal on the non-ve model.

TL;DR: Beginner who wants to know if there are any drawbacks to getting an epiphone sg special with killswitch and D'addario strings over the sg special ve.

Thank you for the help in advance.

This is the link I was looking at when comparing the specs of both:
guitarspecs "." net/guitar/compare/1309/1315/epiphone-sg-special_epiphone/-vs-/epiphone-sg-special-ve-electric-guitar_epiphone
(Had to put the dot n speech marks as im not allowed to post links yet)

EDIT: I thank everyone n this thread for their contributions and advice especially Noodling Guitars for their fast and thorough response. I believe I will stick with the epiphone sg special as I like the red gradient on it more than that of the ve model. Most important thing while playing is to have fun n the process afterall

 

[Noodling Guitars]

Hey guys thinking about getting my first guitar. I've limited my search down to 2 choices.

I'm hesitant between 2 guitars with the exact same starting price point. 1 is the epiphone sg special with a killswitch on the tone knob. The other guitar is the sg special vintage edition both look the same and have the same specs (same dimensions and same brand name for humbuckers not sure if the technology n them is different though) except for the body material the special is made out of mahogany while the special ve is made out of poplar. I dig the finish of the normal sg special a tad bit more than the ve but I'm just wondering if there r any drawbacks to the sg special model? As far as I understand rn both r the exact same spec-wise (mahogany on the special which i think is a plus compared to the poplar on the ve as I heard it assists with the sustain depth and quality of sound due to its density which helps the vibrations get transmitted n an easier manner). The sg special also has an extra killswitch and it comes with D'addario strings 10-46 nickel.

On a side note for anyone confused about how to differentiate between both models personally I find the normal sg special with the golden "special sg model" branding printed on the head while on the ve there is no "special sg model" branding. The screws r also black on the ve while normal on the non-ve model.

TL;DR: Beginner who wants to know if there are any drawbacks to getting an epiphone sg special with killswitch and D'addario strings over the sg special ve.

Thank you for the help in advance.

This is the link I was looking at when comparing the specs of both:
guitarspecs "." net/guitar/compare/1309/1315/epiphone-sg-special_epiphone/-vs-/epiphone-sg-special-ve-electric-guitar_epiphone
(Had to put the dot n speech marks as im not allowed to post links yet)

Welcome! Eveyrone's going to have their take on this and most of it's subjective. But first and foremost, my advice is to always choose the one that looks best to you/ or the one you think about more. If taken to an extreme - you are faced with two options, one that looks fugly but has all the bells and whistles, and another that looks right but is poorly made, both are going to end up being dealbreakers because you're not going to be as motivated to play the former, and the latter is going to make playing/learning difficult. This isn't the case here, and if both are equally good and you already have a preference, go for the killswitch one - they're both decent models and I assume both function properly.

That being said, at this juncture, I wouldn't worry about what the wood does to sound in an electric guitar. The main contributing factor to the sound comes from a bunch of steel strings inducing electromotive force, which then creates the electric current that is ultimately sent to the amp to produce sound. The debate on wood's effect on tone is endless in this subsector of the universe (i.e. guitar pepos) - but for your purposes, the wood actually has a much more practical effect! SGs are known to be neck heavy. Poplar and mahogany can vary quite a bit in density depending on the type of mahogany used. What this means is that when you pick up the guitar, there is a chance that the neck wants to drop down when you put it in your lap because the headstock essentially acts as a fulcrum. This can create a fairly uncomfortable playing experience and so I urge you to try both and see if "neck dive" is an issue (it's not necessarily the case in all SGs, there are tons of SGs that are completely fine w/o neck dive and very comfortable to play).

Dont' worry about the strings - it's just a few dollars. And more importantly, for hygenic reasons, I'd change them out anyway when your guitar arrives - also give the guitar a good wipe down (especially the fingerboard).

 

[Davis Sharp]

^This^ The one that makes you want to play it is the better choice. This is your first guitar and the kill switch will be a novelty. So take that factor out of the equation. Most of us, who have played for decades, don't have kill switches.

I really don't know if there is an audible difference between mahogany and poplar on an amplified guitar, but enough people will think so that it will benefit future re-sale.

Welcome to Epi-Talk, keep us posted, and enjoy the journey.

 

[Raiyn]

This is your first guitar and the kill switch will be a novelty. So take that factor out of the equation. Most of us, who have played for decades, don't have kill switches.

Aww, now I want one!

All jokes aside, get the one you like the best and will make you want to play it - make music not just staccato feedback gibberish.

The killswitch, (while unquestionably cool) is a gimmick when you don't know how to play. It's also a potential point of failure - that if you don't know how to fix it - can really ruin your day.

String brands don't matter THAT much, everyone has a preference that they've picked up by experience.

Wood? That's a whole stinking barrel of fish you don't want to go diving into. I'm not a "tonewood" guy, but at your price point don't expect much.

I've been at this a little while now and I just bought my first guitar where I had any interest or concern about the wood. I ordered a guitar with translucent finish a few days ago and my choice was the one with the prettiest grain pattern. The type of wood was only really only of interest to me from the "why are they using that?" standpoint because I was unfamiliar with its history in guitars.

 

[BGood]

Pretty much what everybody wrote. Go for the one that speaks to you visually, you will want to pick it up and play music, that's what's the most important at your stage.

About strings, you might want to buy a set of lighter ones to make it easier on your fingers. I suggest Ernie Ball Super Slinky 9-42, they're on all of my guitars.

About neck dive. I can guaranty you that you will never experience that with either. Those have a bolt-on neck, making them overall shorter that the regular SG, thus better balanced. Another plus of that bolt-on neck, is that it make the SG easier to play because the neck feels shorter, even if it isn't. The first frets are closer to your extended arm for those open chords.

Oh ... and welcome to the SG zoo 0Z102

 

[grinwer]

.... mahogany on the special which i think is a plus compared to the poplar on the ve as I heard it assists with the sustain depth and quality of sound due to its density which helps the vibrations get transmitted n an easier manner....

Yes.

 

[Raiyn]

Yes.

Horse hockey.

 

[Raiyn]

I'm just going to put this right here.

 

[Noodling Guitars]

Pretty much what everybody wrote. Go for the one that speaks to you visually, you will want to pick it up and play music, that's what's the most important at your stage.

About strings, you might want to buy a set of lighter ones to make it easier on your fingers. I suggest Ernie Ball Super Slinky 9-42, they're on all of my guitars.

About neck dive. I can guaranty you that you will never experience that with either. Those have a bolt-on neck, making them overall shorter that the regular SG, thus better balanced. Another plus of that bolt-on neck, is that it make the SG easier to play because the neck feels shorter, even if it isn't. The first frets are closer to your extended arm for those open chords.

Oh ... and welcome to the SG zoo 0Z102

View attachment 16750

Oh yeah - not really an SG person, but now that you point it out... never noticed the difference in space b/c of there being no tenon plate. I did have massive head dive on my Bully SG back in the day though - but I'm guessing that was because of the baseball bat sized maple neck.

String vibrations depend on resonance with the body.

From an engineering perspective, it's one of those things where all I can say is it might in practice, but it's one of those things that usually people don't look at from a theoretical perspective. I mean if you think back to your 2nd and 3rd year mechanics course and how your string vibrations and waves are setup in a mass damper system/equations, then it shouldn't matter or it would be negligible in the case of an electric guitar (where we don't really need to look at the subsequent air being pushed). But again, that's theory. In practice, there are always "real life" elements such as whether the whole system is rigid enough and of course, even more practical elements of nuts and bridges being not 100% efficient etc etc... and then how much of any of that is audible.

The collection of thoughts by that German engineering prof does a pretty good job of laying this all out, but unfortunately it's written more like a term paper and not that user friendly - still a decent read if you're into that kind of thing.

 

[grinwer]

... In practice, there are always "real life" elements such as whether the whole system is rigid enough and of course, even more practical elements of nuts and bridges being not 100% efficient etc etc... and then how much of any of that is audible.

and body is an important part of the system. It is obvious.
How then can you say that the body is not important???

I played several VE, they all had a dull sound.
This is my experience, my ears.

 

[Noodling Guitars]

and body is an important part of the system. It is obvious.
How then can you say that the body is not important???

It's not that it's not important, but I think there's a difference between looking at the electro-mechanical system that creates the output signal vs. tone as an entirety including from the source (i.e. the human player). In the latter case, of course wood matters because there is a tactile response that is very important - for example, because of how the body resonates against my torso, I may choose to pick harder or softer, which ultimately affects the signal.

In the last 10-15 years, there were a few projects done at various universities here where the point was not to debunk the "tone wood" debate, but rather to see from an engineering perspective whether it would be possible (minus the human element) to replicate the signal from electric guitars. The first variable that was ruled out fairly quickly was the wood - because it wasn't a factor in this particular type of electro-mechanical system if you don't take into account the human element - we're talking ONLY about a mass damper system with a vibrating string inducing electrical current. These universities did tests on the mass, resonance all that stuff. What they ended up concluding (and in fact, many people now are using the product of their research - i.e. Yamaha) was that they could apply an adaptive filter to the end signal and even with different pickups and different woods, they could match the output signal. The only problem was the response time of the adaptive filters (this was 11 years ago of course). A lot of that research has been improved upon and since been applied to various VST and DSP algorithms and basically what you see in the digital realm.

The artistic nature of playing guitar, the psycho acoustic elements, and the tactile response is very subjective but that's also a huge part of "tone". Just that people tend to muddle the two things together. For example, taking this to the extreme like Jim Lill, so what if the neckless/air guitar can sound the same as a Tom Anderson? I sure as hell won't be bending the same or feel satisfied without a nice feeling neck and without that, I'm sure my tone will sound different no matter how hard I tried.

Going back to the original topic - it's also why I always think it's important for OP to buy the guitar that interests him the most - even if the killswitch isn't viewed as a very useful feature. Music isn't science - those emotional elements all play into it.

 

[SauceBoss]

I had the older version of the killpot one, nothing at all bad to say about it. Killpot is a gimmick in my eyes, but also a decent smooth tone pot in its own right. The 650r/700t pickups are just fine. No clue about wood's, but seeing as how they've been made out of fiberglass, carbon fiber, formica etc, I'm more worried about the wood's structural integrity myself.

I think everyone nailed it when they said pick the one that interest's you most. Anything that makes you pick it up and play is good.

 

[BlackSG91]

I like the kill switch option.

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